If someone has a few minutes

RedDaemon · Sep 7, 2010

I did some data logging today. The reason why is because for the past year and a half I have been dealing with a misfire/hesitation that occurs pretty much between 1500 and 2500 rpms. Its pretty much what one would expect when a COP is bad. Today I had access to a scan tool that could perform data logging and of course, my problem didn't really seem to surface, at least noticeably.

I was hoping someone could sift through the data and uncover a potential problem area for me to focus closer on. No codes or codes pending were found so I can't go off of that.

Thanks for any/all help

If clarification is needed on some of the abbreviations, i can get them for you

wmburns · Sep 7, 2010

Do you have underdrive pulleys? Please recap the mods and what has been done to fix the problem along with the results.

Can the data be reformatted into a spread sheet? Something so it can be graphed?

I don't see any EGR related PID's.

Do you have any control over the PID that are logged? In some regards there are too many.

Does "ODB2 STAT CA" mean "closed loop"?

I don't see fuel pressure.

RedDaemon · Sep 7, 2010

wmburns said:
Do you have underdrive pulleys? Please recap the mods and what has been done to fix the problem along with the results.

No significant mods. I DO have aftermarket COPS that have been on for about 3 years. Plugs changed (motorcraft platinum) about 10k miles ago. Intake manifold was changed two years ago. Along with it I replaced all the fuel injector seals and pintle caps

What I have tried to do to solve the problem was to replace the COPs I bought for it with the stock ones I pulled from the car. (I save everything). It is tough to say if that is helping anything since the problem is intermittent and 'sort of' random.

I say 'sort of random' because I think it typically sets in after I have been driving in 5th (~55mph) for a while and I shift down into 4th gear. Also, it likes to come about when I am stopping/am stopped at a light and pulling away.

Can the data be reformatted into a spread sheet? Something so it can be graphed?

I have been trying. I think theres a way to graph it using the tool itself, but for some reason when I access the logged data it wants to be connected to the vehicle. So I will have to see if I can bring my laptop out to the car with me

I don't see any EGR related PID's.

I will have to check if there is a separate diagnostic/monitoring function for that

Do you have any control over the PID that are logged? In some regards there are too many.

yes. with the ones you can see, which ones do you want me to log? I might have to do a rescan. I dont think I can tell the tool to just display certain PIDs of past results

Does "ODB2 STAT CA" mean "closed loop"?

manual said:
OBD2 STAT (CA, OBDI, US, NONE, EU
and/or JA)
On Board Diagnostic shows what vehicle was
made for.

CA - Indicates test vehicle meets
California on board diagnostic
ARB requirements
OBD I - Indicates test vehicle does
not meet OBDII requirements.
US - Indicates test vehicle meets
Federal EPA requirements.
NONE - Indicates test vehicle is not
on board diagnostic compliant.
EU - Indicates test vehicle meets European
on board diagnostic
requirement.
JA - Indicates test vehicle meets
Japanese on board diagnostic
requirement.

I don't see fuel pressure.

I will look to see if theres a PID for it.

RedDaemon · Sep 7, 2010

For EGR, ill have to do a "Diagnostic Monitor Test"

✓ Non-CAN vehicles Diagnostic Monitor Test receives test results for
emission-related powertrain components and systems that are not
continuously monitored.

✓ CAN vehicles Diagnostic Monitor Test receives test results for
emission-related powertrain components and systems that are and
are not continuously monitored.

✓ Vehicle manufacturer is responsible for assigning test and component
IDs.

WTF is a CAN vehicle?

wmburns · Sep 7, 2010

Which ODB2 scanner is this?

There should be a DPFEGR PID. It is a measure of the amount of EGR flow. Excessive EGR flow will cause loss of power. Esp down low.

Have you tried disconnecting and plugging the EGR vacuum solenoid to see if this changes the symptom?

Have you cleaned the MAF? A dirty MAF will overstate flow at idle and understand under load. This causes the motor to go from rich to lean. Monitor LTFM at idle. Blip the throttle a few times. If the LTFT goes from big negative numbers at idle (taking fuel away) to big positive under load (adding fuel), this is a sign of a dirty MAF.

Use only products made for the job.

Just to be sure, put a new PCV valve in. Consider getting a propane based vacuum leak detector. Search Amazon.com.

If you can save the file in PDF, why can't you save it in another format? CSV, TXT, XLS? Or is some delimiter char can be inserted between the fields this would make a text to column conversion possible.

I noted that "FUEL SYS1" goes from "CLSD" to "OPEN1". What does that mean? If that is the PCM operating mode (closed/open loop), this could be your problem. The PCM should remain in closed loop unless WOT or failure management mode (limp-in).

If not, we need to confirm the PCM operating mode (closed/open loop).

RedDaemon · Sep 7, 2010

wmburns said:
Which ODB2 scanner is this?

Actron CP9185

There should be a DPFEGR PID. It is a measure of the amount of EGR flow. Excessive EGR flow will cause loss of power. Esp down low.

I think that PID is not logged in the same way those other PIDs were due to the Diagnostic Monitor Test I mentioned.

Have you tried disconnecting and plugging the EGR vacuum solenoid to see if this changes the symptom?

I haven't. What would this accomplish given that my problem is intermittent? (Serious)

Have you cleaned the MAF? A dirty MAF will overstate flow at idle and understand under load. This causes the motor to go from rich to lean. Monitor LTFM at idle. Blip the throttle a few times. If the LTFT goes from big negative numbers at idle (taking fuel away) to big positive under load (adding fuel), this is a sign of a dirty MAF.

Use only products made for the job.

Just to be sure, put a new PCV valve in. Consider getting a propane based vacuum leak detector. Search Amazon.com.

noted

If you can save the file in PDF, why can't you save it in another format? CSV, TXT, XLS? Or is some delimiter char can be inserted between the fields this would make a text to column conversion possible.

The software that came with the scanner only receives the information from the scanner to be printed. So what I am having it do is print to PDF. i can save the pdf to whatever I want.

I noted that "FUEL SYS1" goes from "CLSD" to "OPEN1". What does that mean? If that is the PCM operating mode (closed/open loop), this could be your problem. The PCM should remain in closed loop unless WOT or failure management mode (limp-in).

If not, we need to confirm the PCM operating mode (closed/open loop).

manual said:
FUEL SYS (OPEN or CLSD)
Fuel System Status show loop status of
fuel system banks.

OPEN: Module is operating in
Open Loop control strategy.
The vehicle has not yet
satisfied conditions for
Module to go to closed
loop.

CLSD: PCM currently functioning
in Closed loop control strategy,
using O2 sensor(s) as
feedback for fuel control

OPEN1: Open Loop control strategy
is being used by the PCM
due to driving conditions.
Driving conditions that may
cause this to happen are
power enrichment and deceleration
enrichment.

OPEN2: The PCM is operating in
Open Loop control strategy
due to detected system
fault. Certain actuator or
sensor faults will cause
module to use an open loop
strategy.

CLSD1: Closed Loop control is cur
rent storage being used by
module, but a fault with at
least one O2 sensor has
been detected. The control
system may be using single
O2 for fuel control calculations.

At the time of datalogging, i was not WOT.

RedDaemon · Sep 7, 2010

I am going to have another look tomorrow at the PIDs that I can select for datalogging. Eventhough I selected 'All' PIDs to log, i distinctly remember it checking that there were about 106 PIDs, what I have logged is def not close to 106 PIDs available for my car. I would guess being an embedded device, there are too many for it to store in memory so it took a subset

Anyway, i went outside to try to see if i could print a graph of data directly off of the device (as you can see graphs on the device), but no dice. I did manage to pull some new information:

On-Board Readiness
tests are complete.

Misfire Monitor ok
Fuel System Mon ok
Comp Component ok
Catalyst Mon ok
Htd Catalyst n/a
Evap System Mon ok
Sec Air System n/a
A/C Refrig Mon n/a
Oxygen Sens Mon ok
Oxygen Sens Htr ok
EGR System Mon ok

State OBD Check
MIL Status: Off
Codes Found: 0
Monitors OK: 8
Monitors Inc: 0
Monitors N/A: 3

Ill see if i can figure out a way to graph the log in the meantime

RedDaemon · Sep 7, 2010

spent a good portion of time trying to reformat all that nonsense:

the -5 to 32 X-axis labels specify the 'frame'/point in time that the tool captured the data

wmburns · Sep 7, 2010

Getting closer. For what we are doing, STFT has little value. Graph the LTFT on top of RPM's.

Graph the MAF on top of RPM's.

We need a graph of Fuel pressure on top of RPM's.

We need a graph of timing on top of RPM's.

We need a graph of EGR flow on top of RPM's.

By superimposing key values on top of each other, we are looking for a pattern to emerge.

What about the condition of your exhaust/cats? An exhaust restriction could limit performance.

A vaccum leak needs to be completely ruled out. Even a tiny leak can be the underlining cause.

IMO, your time would best be served to rule out the usual basic causes of this problem. Then concertrate on data logging. The base engine and sensors really need to be top notch. I think you are beginning to get a taste of what diagnostic data logging is like. Don't get me wrong. I am a big believer in it. However, there is also a steep learning curve esp with you really don't know what you are looking for.

RedDaemon · Sep 8, 2010

on the phone w/ actron now. out of 106-108 PIDs, I can only datastream/log only the subset which i provided. i want to know why that is.

i believe timing is "IGN ADV (DEG)"...working on that now.

RedDaemon · Sep 8, 2010

Verdict is, although the tool can communicate with the PCM, stuff like fuel pressure and DPF EGR PIDs are above and beyond what the tool can handle. good thing i didnt personally purchase the tool or i would be pissed

The support rep on the phone was very nice and honest about it. So....oh well haha.

Thanks for the help wm

wmburns · Sep 10, 2010

I own an Actron EZreader with the unlock feature. It has a one line display with no data logging at all. It can monitor operational data. It is a very minimal unit.

My cheap a** EZreader will access fuel pressure. It will not access DPFE/EGR PIDs. I suspect that your unit may be able to monitor more PIDs (just not data log).

The number of problems I have been able to solve with this simple scanner is amazing. However, its one of those things that as you learn what it can do, you want more. If I had it to do over again, I would have spent the extra $$ for a multi-line unit with data logging.

On to your base problem. What have you done to rule out an EGR problem? If high mileage, consider replacing the EGR valve. The exhaust gasses will rot them out from the inside.

What is the condition of the O2 sensors? Over 100k miles? Replace.

If someone has a few minutes

RedDaemon

Attachments

wmburns

RedDaemon

RedDaemon

wmburns

RedDaemon

RedDaemon

RedDaemon

Attachments

wmburns

RedDaemon

RedDaemon

wmburns

Similar threads

If someone has a few minutes

Attachments

Attachments

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency