It was a good Christmas this year.

[MO351]

Well I got a 67 Mustang for Christmas this year. WOOHOO!! My father-in-law gave me his 67 stang. It was his first car. I NEVER thought he would have done this. It's my new resto project.

Anyways, it's got a 289 V8 2V in it. It's been rebuilt but that was about 4 years-ish ago and it hasn't been run since because he said he thinks the C4 needs a new flexplate. So since it's been so long since the motor has run what do I need to do to the internals? My wife's uncle said to fill the whole motor with oil and let it sit a considerable amount of time. I guess to help "loosen" up anything that may be froze in position. What would ya'll suggest I do?

At time of rebuild: block gone thru and then the cylinders sleeved to keep the 289 ci. Crank turned, new bearings, etc. It's supposed to be still 289. It's got 302 heads on it with new valves so it can run unleaded fuel. 2 barrell carb that I'm assuming is stock. It does have a new "high performance" cam in it but he hasn't got me the information on it yet.

Suggestions??

What kind of power can be made with a 289? I'm used to 302s and up as well as fuel injection. I don't know jack about carbs.

 

[302 coupe]

seems starnge for it to have sleeved cylinders? Are you sure that it wasn't just bored and fitted with new pistons?

To help with your question....remove the spark plugs and squirt a liitle oil in the cylinders. You can also remove the distributor and hook a reversible drill to the oil pump shaft to prime the pump and get oil back into the system. Fresh oil, fresh coolant, fresh gas, might want to go over the ignition system. Carb may need to be disassembled and cleaned, the 2100's are real simple though. Check the hoses and wires for problems, squirrels and mice like the taste of rubber for some reason.

as far as power potential, the 289 and 302 are practically twins, all the parts are the same with the exception being the 289's slightly longer rods, but slightly shorter stroke crank. Have fun with it. Post some pics if you get a chance.

 

[MO351]

Well I kinda thought it'd be odd for sleeved cylinders, too. Maybe it's just the pistons to keep the 289 ci. BTW, what kind of test or whatever can a guy do to find out what the CI is?

How much oil do I put into the cylinders via the sparkplug holes? I'm assuming it'll start alright with oil in there and just burn up the oil.

Plus the brakes aren't working right now. Gotta figure out what's up with that and the tranny.

Oh, and the drill needs to go in reverse right? As in "unscrewing" or counter clockwise, right?

Thanks.

 

[302 coupe]

drill needs to go backwards, as in counter clockwise.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it being a a 289 or 302, you'd never know the difference. If you absolutely must know, drop the oil pan and look for a 1M casting mark on the crank for a 289, 2M for a 302.

To put oil in the cylinders, I always use a little oil squirt can, give it two or three squirts, then let it sit overnight so the oil can get in the rings and run down the bore a little.

Your flexplate problem could be a number of things. The flexplate could be improperly torqued to the crank, improperly toqued to the torque converter, it could be cracked, or it could have the wrong balance weight(a long shot, but possible). But then again, the flexplate might not be the problem, it may be something else. Get it running and let us know the symptoms.

 

[MO351]

Cool deal. Thanks for the help.

BTW, pics can be seen at this website.

http://www.100mphclub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3600&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

[302 coupe]

I noticed a few things in the pics, its a 4V, not a 2V, it appears to have a Holley #1850, 600 cfm carb. When you said 2V, you may have been refering to the way it was originally equipped, if so, nevermind. Also, the water pump is a post 1970 unit because the lower hose outlet is on the drivers side. I don't know why someone would have switched from the original passenger side outlet because you'd also have to change the timing cover, harmonic balancer, timing pointer, and crank pulley. My guess is that the engine is from a 70-up vehicle, which would mean its a 302. It looks like a good project, is that whats left of the original paint on the drivers side?

 

[MO351]

I noticed a few things in the pics, its a 4V, not a 2V, it appears to have a Holley #1850, 600 cfm carb. When you said 2V, you may have been refering to the way it was originally equipped, if so, nevermind. Also, the water pump is a post 1970 unit because the lower hose outlet is on the drivers side. I don't know why someone would have switched from the original passenger side outlet because you'd also have to change the timing cover, harmonic balancer, timing pointer, and crank pulley. My guess is that the engine is from a 70-up vehicle, which would mean its a 302. It looks like a good project, is that whats left of the original paint on the drivers side?

What are the tell tale signs of the 4V vs a 2V? He and his dad bought this car in 77 as the second owner of the car. He has never replaced the engine. So if that's not the original then the guy he got it from must have replaced it. Here's the VIN 7F01C109508. As you can see it originally came with the C code 289 2V. How can I check the motor to make for certain as to what it is? Is there going to be some kind of serial number on the block I can check? So you are saying that this motor is a 70-up 302 4V?? How good of a carb is that (looks like a 2 barrell carb though so why would that be on a 4V motor)? I don't know the first thing about carbs. I"m an EFI guy.

Do you recommend any books to bone up on these cars?

As for the paint, yes.

 

[MO351]

Also a little more of what I have planned.

I haven't got a complete plan for the drivetrain. I had been looking for a shell or 6 cyl to get real cheap build from the ground up with a Tremec 5-speed, 351W bored and stroked to maybe a 393, along with either a 8.8 or 9 inch rear with around a 3.55. BUT, lol, out of the blue he gives me his pride and joy. Since it already has a V8 and an automatic that has really good potential I'm thinking about just keeping that set up but still wanting to get some more hp/torque out of the motor. At minimum I want to be in the mid to low 13s. BUT as you could tell from what my previous goal was I was shooting for considerably lower ETs.

The interior will be going back to pretty much completely original Aqua.

The exterior will be Black on top from front to back (edge of hood to edge of trunk)/side to side (fender edge to fender edge) and then the original Clearwater Aqua around the rest of the car.

The brakes aren't currently working so I gotta figure out what to do. It's 4 wheel drums. I'd ideally like to have 4 wheel discs as well as with 5 lug pattern like the SN95s so I can run better wheels.

 

[65fastback2+2]

The brakes aren't currently working so I gotta figure out what to do. It's 4 wheel drums. I'd ideally like to have 4 wheel discs as well as with 5 lug pattern like the SN95s so I can run better wheels.

A C code car with a possible 302 and 4-lug wheels...hmmm....this sure sounds fishy. 4 lugs only came on 6-banger cars....c code isnt a 302 (assuming it is a 302)....maybe this was originally a 6 banger car with a 302 and C code vins popped on the doors....pop the hood and look down the area of the left fender where the bolts are....see what vin is stamped in there...

 

[MO351]

A C code car with a possible 302 and 4-lug wheels...hmmm....this sure sounds fishy. 4 lugs only came on 6-banger cars....c code isnt a 302 (assuming it is a 302)....maybe this was originally a 6 banger car with a 302 and C code vins popped on the doors....pop the hood and look down the area of the left fender where the bolts are....see what vin is stamped in there...

No. It's 5 lug with drum brakes. But it's my understanding that the bolt pattern is not the same as the newer mustangs, correct?

The VIN on the drivers side under the hood is stamped correctly. Matches perfectly.

I ran the vehicle data plate and everything matches.
Body: 65A
Color: W
Trim: 2K
Date: 18K
DSO: 53
Axle: 0
Trans: W

I'll try and attach some more pics of the motor for you guys. BTW, it is a HOLLEY carb.

 

[MO351]

Here's a couple more. I had a better carb shot but accidently deleted it off the camera.

 

[MO351]

A couple more pics.

 

[MO351]

And 2 more.

 

[302 coupe]

What are the tell tale signs of the 4V vs a 2V? He and his dad bought this car in 77 as the second owner of the car. He has never replaced the engine. So if that's not the original then the guy he got it from must have replaced it. Here's the VIN 7F01C109508. As you can see it originally came with the C code 289 2V. How can I check the motor to make for certain as to what it is? Is there going to be some kind of serial number on the block I can check? So you are saying that this motor is a 70-up 302 4V?? How good of a carb is that (looks like a 2 barrell carb though so why would that be on a 4V motor)? I don't know the first thing about carbs. I"m an EFI guy.

Do you recommend any books to bone up on these cars?

As for the paint, yes.

ok, first off, there isn't really any difference between a 289 2V(as in 2 barrel carb) or 289 4V(4 barrel carb). Just to be sure you're not confusing valves with venturis. If you hear the modular motor guys say 4.6L 2V, that means its a 2 valve 4.6, as in sohc. When you see a term like 289 2V or 289 4V, that simply means it has a 2 venturi or 4 venturi carb, respectively. We normally call the venturi's "barrels" because of their upright cylindrical shape. If you already knew all that, nevermind, I'm not trying to make you feel ignorant or anything, I just want to make sure we're on the same page since you said you were a newb to carbs. Anyway, take a good look at your carb, then look in Jegs or Summit in the carb section, you'll see a picture of a carb just like it, and the section below will have a general description for the 1850 series carbs like you have. Note the only difference between a 2V engine and a 4V engine is the intake and carb, only exception being the Cleveland series of engines. Obviously, a 4V carb would require an intake with 4 holes, whereas a 2V carb would need an intake with 2 holes. The 'C' code in your VIN means that the car was originally equipped with a 2 barrel 289. To me, it looks like it now has 302, and the 4 barrel carb can clearly be seen. It looks like it has a Ford cast iron intake manifold, which would be better used as a boat anchor. Since you said its been sitting for 4 years, I'd definately rebuild that Holley carb, they don't like to sit. There are plenty of books available and rebuild kits are inexpensive. If I were you, Id' get a book and a rebuild kit made by Holley(the Holley kits are higher quality than the rest). Get a bucket of carb cleaner to let everything soak and get thoroughly clean. Read your book before diassembly and closely during re-assembly. By the time you get it put back together you'll know alot more about carbs.

As for your other build plans, it looks like the usual stuff nowadays. If you plan on doing much highway driving, definately go with an overdrive tranny. T5, Tremec, AOD, its all been done before so help and swap parts are easy to find if you need it. If its gonna be a weekend toy/strip car, I'd go with a C4 automatic. They're pretty tough, light, and don't rob much power, plus you've already got one in your car so you won't have to worry about the headaches sometimes caused by a swap. For the rear, I'd go with a 9" if hard usage is planned. 8.8" rears will work, but it takes some cutting and welding. 9" 's are an easier upgrade. The 8" rear you have might last for a while, but chances are it has a 2.79 gear ratio on an open(non posi) carrier, instead of swapping gears and installing a locker or trac-lok on the marginal 8", just spend a little more for the 9" swap. The 5 lug bolt patterns are the same, but backspacing is different and you'll need some spacers for late model wheels to work. Dodgestang has a comprehensive wheel/tire fitment guide on his site, so he's the man to ask about that.

 

[Swede958]

The bolt pattern is the same, it's the backspacing on the wheels that is different. On modern cars the backspacing is more so that the brakes ride basically in the center of the wheel. To use a stock modern wheel, say like the bullet wheel, you'd have to get I believe a 1" adapter plate to bolt onto your drum and then bolt the wheel to that.

As far as brakes go, try to pick up a set of 70+ drum spindles, as they are much beefier than the ones you currently have. Then your choice for brakes are endless... there is the Granada swaps, I've heard of lincoln ones as well. Or aftermarket through companies like Willwood, SSBC, MP Brakes and Baer.

The Swede

 

[MO351]

Awesome information, guys. Appreciate it alot. I'd definitely at least like to have front discs.

302 Coupe: Like I said earlier I don't know jack about carbs so you were right. I was thinking 2 Valve and 4 Valve. Not the Venturi thing. I'm used to the EFI motors, lol. So are you positive that's a 70-up 302 in there? Is there a number on the block that would tell me one way or another? I'll have to get those cam specs sometime soon.

Also when I get a different intake would that HOLLEY be a good one to keep or should I get something else?

 

[302 coupe]

I'm not positive its a 302, I am making an educated guess based on the style of front dress it has(water pump, timing cover, etc.) The only certain way I know to tell is by looking at the casting mark on the crankshaft. The block, heads, intake, all that stuff interchanges between 289's and 302's so their part numbers may not accurately designate it as either. Like I said earlier, don't make a big deal about which engine it is, there isn't much difference between the two. I would go so far as to say that someone could steal your car one night, swap one engine for the other, then return the car, and when you drove it the next day, you'd never know it happened.

The carb you currently have will be a decent one to keep for most mild buildup's.