oh trust me I'm not thinking of it like the 302The one thing you have to remember is that a 4" stroke Windsor is a completely different motor compared to a 302 based. It's like going to a big block. You will have tire shredding torque no matter what topend/cam etc you throw at it. Well over 400 ft lbs very early in the rpm band. You're going to like having the powerband moved up in the rpm range as much as possible. Like 3-5k rpm with a 6k shift point. Even a super Vic efi intake(adv range of 35-8000rpm on a 351) will make a crap ton of low speed torque and have a killer midrange. It also won't rev that high on a 408-427 type build. More likely be done at 6-6500 rpm even with a high duration cam. DONT think of these like a 302!!! Or even a 351. Completely different. You don't want it to be all done by 5000rpm with a super high lowend torque. It will be useless making power off idle to 3000rpm. It will have that power anyways. I really don't think that rpm intake is right for you. And I know this is a street car. Just saying
I'm sure you mean elbow only with the victor jr?Poly urethane is stronger then rubber . But doesn't transmit vibration like solid mounts do . I'd skip the edelbrock as well . Systemax , Tfs r , or victor Jr. With an elbow .
Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate
most definitely.With yours being a SN95 car I'm not informed on hood clearance. I know it's a pita to fit into a Fox lol. Most fox body guys have a hard time fitting an tfs r-9.5" motor under even a 4" cowl. I do know the single plane/elbow types are lower than the box r. It may not be as aesthetically pleasing to you but you should investigate all of the available intakes for their dimensions. I'd base my decision off that,rpm band,price,and then the aesthetic appeal.
great advice man. I'm getting ready for a long weekend and may not be able to respond much tonite or tommorow unless I use my phone351 block means a cowl hood, or an intake so helpless it kills your power. Low end torque is over rated. No matter which engine you end up with, you are going to have far more low end torque than a street tire can handle. If you have a drag tire, you launch at 5000+rpms, and the engine never goes below 4000rpms for the entire quarter mile. Don't get bent around the barrel over the low end torque thing, it won't be an issue. I am not trying to talk you into one engine or the other. Just be aware that the 351 swaps add a lot of cost that isn't initially obvious.
The transmission thing is a topic that has been beaten to death on this forum. I honestly don't have a firm answer on which transmission is better. I'll give you the quick and dirty. The T5 has pretty small gears in it. So no matter how strong the gears are, they still fall victim to their size. The TKO600 has much bigger gears and bearings, but some argue that the length of the shafts make them vulnerable to flexxing, making them as weak as the Astro T5s. The TKO transmission case is also kind of thin in the front and cracks sometimes (I've cracked two of them). The T56 (6 speed) has the exact same gear size and bearings as the TKO and a better case, but it's heavier and more expensive. I actually do some occasional transmission work here for our business, but I am by no means an expert. If you want good manual transmission advice, talk to Bob or Linda Hanlon of Hanlon Motorsports in Pennsylvania. They are by far the best in the business, and have never steered me wrong. And if you feel they give you good advice, do the right thing and buy a transmission from them. Having one of the higher power Mustangs on this forum, I can tell you that everything breaks when you have a big engine. Get used to fixing things. It doesn't mean you made the wrong choice, or the quality is crap, stuff just breaks.
The engine mounts are up to you. The poly ones are probably good enough. The solid ones won't break, but they will make the car vibrate more. Vibration isn't only bad for you, it's bad for electronics, and it's going to vibrate bolts loose. Serious drag racers who use an engine plate typically spend their pre race time making sure every bolt is tight, because something has rattled loose on the previous race. There is no magic in this world. Every choice has a consequence. We do the best we can.
Kurt
I personally won't run anything but solid motor mounts.I wouldn't run solid motor mounts on a street car. To much vibration from what I've read. I don't have personal experience with them. I bought energy suspension kit for both mm and trans.
Well the splayed cap "thing" is debatable. I've seen a few race motors where the the mains ended up splitting. One of their machinist theorized it actually weakens the mains. Also read on another forum where the consensus was the same. Not everybody agrees with the splayed caps. Also Jim Woods (fordstrokers.com) doesn't splay his f4 blocks and claims they are good to around 7-800hp.As previously stated, the 363 only works with an aftermarket block. The biggest advantage to a 351 block is that there is enough material to machine it for a 4 bolt, or splayed bolt main cap. If you don't do that, it's not much stronger than a 302 block.
Kurt
False.The biggest advantage to a 351 block is that there is enough material to machine it for a 4 bolt, or splayed bolt main cap. If you don't do that, it's not much stronger than a 302 block.
Kurt
My buddy is going 8.92 on a stock 351 block .030 over . bullFalse.
Putting splayed mains in a prodiction 351w block, is an epic waste of money.
The 351w block is MUCH stronger than the 302 block... and MANY of us have been able to make over 1000bhp. Hell, I'm still running all stock internals!
Not really any etched in stone goals sinceit won't be a track car. I would say to be at 400 or above HP I'd be satisfied but them again maybe 450. After I do all of the figures I will compare and see how much I'd save going 363 vs 400 with the dart block. Overall cost may or may not make a differenceWhat's your goal with the car?
Btw biggest you can go on stock block is 347 and the arguable limits are around 500hp and under 6500rpms. If you really just want a nice solid street motor and keep rpms under 6500-I'd just use the stock block. You can even keep some of your existing parts and would probably cost 1/2 - 2/3 as much.
I will strongly consider every angle after figuring up all optionsWell the splayed cap "thing" is debatable. I've seen a few race motors where the the mains ended up splitting. One of their machinist theorized it actually weakens the mains. Also read on another forum where the consensus was the same. Not everybody agrees with the splayed caps. Also Jim Woods (fordstrokers.com) doesn't splay his f4 blocks and claims they are good to around 7-800hp.
I'm one of "those guys" who always recommends a dart block. For this op,who says he only wants a "street" motor,which he doesn't race and will see 500hp max, I'd recommend a stock block. Dart block is overkill and an extra 3k. Seems excessive to me.
Obviously if he does go Dart, he won't have to worry about the block cracking and should last a very long time. Curious though why you feel that a stock 351 block isn't any stronger(or marginally stronger) than a stock 302 block? The mains are thicker,journals are larger,etc and in a fairly mild n/a build, it will not see excessive rpms or cylinder pressures.
If you went 363 8.2 based you need dart block any way . You can't make 363 cubes out of a stock 302 blockNot really any etched in stone goals sinceit won't be a track car. I would say to be at 400 or above HP I'd be satisfied but them again maybe 450. After I do all of the figures I will compare and see how much I'd save going 363 vs 400 with the dart block. Overall cost may or may not make a difference
Yes but I could get a used 351 vs $2000 for a dart blockIf you went 363 8.2 based you need dart block any way . You can't make 363 cubes out of a stock 302 block
Sent from my iPhone using my fingers while my auto correct makes me seem illiterate
A "used 351" is not comparable to a dart block in the same sentence when comparing options. A Dart block is vastly superior to the stock blocks on either variation. If your intent to to build a street car, and not push the boundaries of the stock platforms (which it doesn't sound like you intend to) then why even consider the added expense of a Dart based build?Yes but I could get a used 351 vs $2000 for a dart block
How much HP n Torque can I expect if so?
I was only comparing as to cost difference when I do the comparison. I will reply in greater detail in a few. Tied up at duty.A "used 351" is not comparable to a dart block in the same sentence when comparing options. A Dart block is vastly superior to the stock blocks on either variation. If your intent to to build a street car, and not push the boundaries of the stock platforms (which it doesn't sound like you intend to) then why even consider the added expense of a Dart based build?
A 5.0 will survive at 450HP. 450 HP in a fox is a lot of power. A 5.7 will add 100 hp to that.
Do people push those boundaries and get away with it? Of course they do. Does that mean that you'll be able to count on that?
Nope.
I had a stock blocked 351 stroked to 393 that routinely saw high 5's in the 1/8 mile. It also saw 5.65......once. How ever much power that engine was making to go that fast in a 3000 pound car I never put on paper,...(probably close to 900) but, the aftermath of a too aggressive tune left me w/ a cracked block, and main bearings, and caps that looked like they were walking to New Orleans.
Hp, and torque potential is directly tied to how it comes. In other words,...N/A, or from some sort of power adder. Boosted applications add torque at a different ratio to a N/A when compared against each other, and torque may come on earlier, and stay a lot longer.
All this goes to say that if you do not intend to force air or nitrous into the motor, your question about "how much" is relative to "how much" you are willing to sacrifice for the top numbers.
a 550 HP big windsor is a cake walk if you put a wheezer on it at very low boost. Properly tuned, it'll be happy to do that routinely probably at a very street friendly 5-5500 RPM. Your "sacrifice" in this scenario is money. Whether you put a centri-SC, or a turbocharger to achieve that, you're gonna need alot of it. A 550 HP big windsor N/A will be a big cammed rumpity-rumpity-rumpity, 93 octane swilling pig that will want to see 6500-7000 RPM to show you those numbers. Big cams, Higher compression, larger injectors, or a big carb makes for a hot, less than enjoyable street driving experience. The sacrifice here is obvious,...
Name your poison.
Haha blame it on me being busy and having to use my phone and text to speech lmfal I will now continue reading the rest in reply***Sigh.....If you actually said all of that out loud, you'd be out of breath. Two words of advice:
Periods, spell check.
It's a "Dart" block. Not a dark block (unless you paint it black)
When people say 363 they mean a Dart blocked 8.2" deck 5.0 based build. A stock 351 bored .030 (all the bigger you'd want to go) is 357.
The stroker kits available for a stock 351 come in two variations,.... that being a 393, or a 408. Bigger builds require a larger than 4.060 bore, and are better accomplished w/ a Dart block.
If you have someone who you trust emphatically,......why all the hub bub then?
In other words,....why muddy up the water w/ indecision, when your trusted "nerd gearhead" is already advising you as well?
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