Kb 2.2l or turbo-kit?

American_Muscle · May 9, 2006

Hey guys,

I've decided to keep my 5.0 and start modifying it.I'm like a kid in a candy store!

A buddy of mine is selling his 2.2l Blowzilla for $3300(with an 8 and 10 psi pulley) and with the supporting hardware(38 lb inj., gt-40 lower intake etc) he wants $3900.

It has about 3k miles on it.Decent price or no?

Or I was thinking about going with a hellion turbo kit.
That would cost me 5k but I assume it would make more power.

This 91 lx will be mostly for the street.

I'm just guessing that the turbo kit, which produces 390 rwhp on an otherwise stock 5.0, would make more power with more potential than the KB, but then again people say the Blowzilla is better for the street because of the torque.

I'd appreciate any comments or help/

thanks
Patrick

Bad92GT · May 9, 2006

DAGGAR!
where are you old man.. answer this fellas questions.. as far as the 2.2l goes.. it is one bad mother.. if i had the choice i'd run the blowzilla since it's a more streetable kit than a turbo.. when it comes to upgradeability its the turbo all the way

Lyncher · May 9, 2006

well I would go with the hellion personally... the 390 rwhp is only with 8psi of boost and you change that and make insane power... but do you have a stock block? WIth a stock block that is gonna limit the power you can make with the turbo but the 2.2 will also be a ton of fun on the street, I think its just personal preference

American_Muscle · May 9, 2006

Well that's the thing...I'll probably be getting a dart block after the summer is over anyway.

I'd like to build a nice streetable beast.

How far can the boost be upped with the hellion kit?(even with the 62mm turbonetics turbo that comes with the kit)

I also have a thread going about this on turbomustangs...but I enjoy the stangnet crowd a lot more.

Blakthorn · May 9, 2006

psssst the turbo kit im selling makes 400hp at 9psi on stock block with a few bolt ons

Bad92GT · May 9, 2006

Blakthorn said:
psssst the turbo kit im selling makes 400hp at 9psi on stock block with a few bolt ons

blakthorn, you get my PM i sentcha?

Daggar · May 9, 2006

There's no substitute (not even a turbo) for a KB on a street setup. It's more fun than a barrel of monkeys. It's instant boost at any RPM with enough torque to rip your teeth through the back of your head.

I'm certainly not opposed to turbo setups though. List what mods you've got already. If you're running steep gears (3:75 or better) already and the turbo is within your budget, then I'd go with that setup. A turbo is (in my opinion) a more elegant solution to forced induction where the KB is a bit more like killing a housefly with both barrels of a 10 gauge shotgun. I liken it to having a big block in the car without all the weight.

If there were currently an inter-cooler for the KB and the 5oh, I'd say get the KB hands down.

If you're looking for instant brute power, get the KB.

If you're looking for the best SOTP feel for a street Mustang, then I'd still say KB.

If you're looking for high end HP, get the turbo.

If you're looking for peak HP numbers with a minimum impact on the block, get the turbo.

You gotta love that once the Hellion kit is installed, that it requires little more than a turbo swap to get more power whereas with the KB, I'd suggest getting the Flowzilla/Blowzilla setup from the get go.

That about sums up my objective version. Now for my not so objective input:

I love my KB! From stop light to stop light there's not much out there that can put up a really good fight. That includes Vortec Supercharged 05 Mustangs and Eaton Supercharged 03 Cobras. Max power and torque is achieved well before these other cars get up on their respective power bands. On the 1/8th mile, you'll dominate as well as any condition where you're required to get on and off the throttle. In the quarter mile you'll hold your own. Both cases assume you're able to get traction (which can be difficult seeing how quickly torque builds). I still run my 2:73 gears and don't have near the traction I'd like to have with this setup (a turbo will build power more gradually). It's a whole lotta fun and will certainly change your driving habits and launch. hehe

I'll soon be stepping up to a much better engine combo and ridiculous increase in both power and torque. Boost from the KB will likely be 3 times what it's currently putting out. There will be more to follow on this setup sometime in July (right Rick??).

On last thing I'd like to add is about all the relatively recent improvements made to water/methanol injection systems for street applications. They're getting better all the time. It's something else to think about when considering the absence of an inter-cooler for our cars.

I chose the KB because I'm pretty much 95% street and go to the track once in a blue moon just to get numbers and a baseline. Since the installation of the KB, I've been asked to leave two tracks and return only when I've installed the necessary safety equipment. I'll leave it at that.

Nopantz · May 9, 2006

Thank you daggar for that.....KB

mob · May 9, 2006

imo your limited on the stock block, either build a 347 stroker, or build up that dart you said and build the engine around the s/c or turbo. Id go with a turbo, and build the engine around it.

bob331T76 · May 10, 2006

hellion kit all the way, it leaves you with plenty more room to change the power and you still can push your stock block to 600 no problem

American_Muscle · May 10, 2006

Wow, daggar!

Thanks for the description!

"Like killing a housefly with both barrels of a 10-gauge"

You are very good with words!lol

How is the fitment?
Are there any clearance issues with the hood?

Is the whine pretty loud?
If it is anything like the 4.6l KB's then wow!
Thanks
Patrick

Daggar · May 10, 2006

bob331T76 said:
hellion kit all the way, it leaves you with plenty more room to change the power and you still can push your stock block to 600 no problem

The same applies to the 2.2L Kenne Bell.

Daggar · May 10, 2006

American_Muscle said:
Wow, daggar!

Thanks for the description!

"Like killing a housefly with both barrels of a 10-gauge"

You are very good with words!lol

How is the fitment?
Are there any clearance issues with the hood?

Is the whine pretty loud?
If it is anything like the 4.6l KB's then wow!
Thanks
Patrick

It's the exact same blower. The only things that are different are the manifolds. Typically you can make power with a KB on a 5oh than you can on a 4.6L. The exception to that rule are the 4.6L setups that run the inter-cooler. It's allot easier to run 22+ lbs of boost if you've got something to cool the discharge air (of course). That's where the water/meth injection comes in. That's something I'll be playing around with allot more once the new block is complete. The new motor consists of a Dart based 327 assembly with cam and internals specifically pieced together for the KB. Should be allot of fun. IIRC, Rick is having the cam cut by Ed Curtis. I may just have to go out and run road courses when it's all complete. hehe

ms93gt · May 10, 2006

Whoo woo, sorry to burst your bubble daggar but a turbo is NOT high end hp. They make full boost around 3grand and dont run out of steam untill 6+grand unlike the KB.

This thread should sum of your expression of a turbo, http://www.performance-shop.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=18059

at 12psi he made 568rwhp and 574tq. Look at the dyno curve, perfect for a street car.

Daggar · May 10, 2006

ms93gt said:
Whoo woo, sorry to burst your bubble

Jesus, this term is overused. You've not bursted anything and I don't walk around with or inside of a bubble. lol

ms93gt said:
daggar but a turbo is NOT high end hp.

B.S. A turbo is most certainly high end HP. That is where they shine. I don't think you'll see any mention in any of my posts stating that turbos were not capable of making torque. They just do it more gradually. Some more gradually than others.

ms93gt said:
They make full boost around 3grand and dont run out of steam untill 6+grand unlike the KB.

Nothing more than internet myth. A 2.2L litre Kenne Bell does not "run out of steam" at 6000 rpm. Particularly at a measly 12 psi. This is more a function of heads and cam... not the blower.

ms93gt said:
This thread should sum of your expression of a turbo, http://www.performance-shop.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=18059

at 12psi he made 568rwhp and 574tq. Look at the dyno curve, perfect for a street car.

All turbine operated blowers require time to spool. Some do it better than others and are more efficient or are a better match to their application. A twin screw on the other hand, ALWAYS makes full boost. From idle to redline. No muss no fuss, it's why I liken it to having a big block in the car. You're only wait time (if you're able to detect any) is from the time you put your foot into the gas to the time that the bypass valve is fully closed. 568 rwhp and 574 ft/lbs of torque from 12 psi are good numbers to be sure but they're not mind blowing considering all the other modifications done to the same combo. Let's try to keep things in their perspective. Consider reading a post in it's entirety before commenting on it.

Daggar · May 10, 2006

In reference to the "ideal for the street" torque curve from above. It's good... no doubt. Here's an idea of what to expect from a twin screw. This is what I refer to when I'm talking about centris and turbos taking time to spool. This is a dyno from a stock 98 Cobra with no intercooler.

350 ft/lbs achieved on a stock motor and exhaust at just 2200 RPM. You can also note that the "fall off" that's suggested is not present as the result of being a twin screw but actually the limitation of the heads, cam, exhaust, etc. The dyno curves follow one another near perfectly in both boosted and N/A form. I might also mention that these numbers are pretty consistent with between 6 and 8 lbs of boost from a 2.2L KB, not 12. You can typically run as much as 14 lbs before getting into territory where an intercooler might be required.

ms93gt · May 10, 2006

turbonetics 62-1 turbo @ 13 psi - stock 302 shortblock, stock e7 heads, stock ecu, stock t5, f303 cam, holley intake, 42# injectors, Granatelli 75mm mass air, BBK 75mm throttle body, msd, 255lph fuel pump, single 3.5" exhaust with a straight thru muffler and a dump...

hp @ 470, tq @ 463

463tq at 3,600rpms

Daggar · May 10, 2006

ms93gt said:
turbonetics 62-1 turbo @ 13 psi - stock 302 shortblock, stock e7 heads, stock ecu, stock t5, f303 cam, holley intake, 42# injectors, Granatelli 75mm mass air, BBK 75mm throttle body, msd, 255lph fuel pump, single 3.5" exhaust with a straight thru muffler and a dump...

hp @ 470, tq @ 463

463tq at 3,600rpms

Gotcha, although I'm not sure what your point is. I think you're under the impression that I'm "anti-turbo" but that's not the case at all. You can still see the differences in the torque curve from the time it takes for a turbo to spool vs. a twin screw. Is it the peak tq and HP numbers you're pointing out? We're still comparing roughly 8 lbs from a KB to 13 lbs from a turbo if that's the case. I would expect that HP numbers for a turbo to be a bit higher than a KB (but not always). Pound for pound of boost though... You'd be hard pressed to beat a KB inthe torque department. It's just the nature of the beast... even with the crank parasitic loss of a KB vs. the exhaust parasitic loss of a turbo taken into consideration.

ms93gt · May 10, 2006

Daggar said:
Gotcha, although I'm not sure what your point is. I think you're under the impression that I'm "anti-turbo" but that's not the case at all. You can still see the differences in the torque curve from the time it takes for a turbo to spool vs. a twin screw. Is it the peak tq and HP numbers you're pointing out? We're still comparing roughly 8 lbs from a KB to 13 lbs from a turbo if that's the case. I would expect that HP numbers for a turbo to be a bit higher than a KB (but not always). Pound for pound of boost though... You'd be hard pressed to beat a KB inthe torque department. It's just the nature of the beast... even with the crank parasitic loss of a KB vs. the exhaust parasitic loss of a turbo taken into consideration.

I was just showing that a turbo isnt all high end power. Pound per pound I would say a turbo wins as it's not run off the motor. Remember the more boost you pull out from a blower, the more stress its putting onto the motor creating more parasitic drag. In the turbo mustang thread I sent, look at his graph at 10lbs, 465rwhp and 474tq, than 12lbs and 568rwhp and 574tq. 100rwhp gain from ONLY TWO lbs. Can't beat that.

ms93gt · May 10, 2006

Also it only takes a turn of the dial from the boost controller and your flying even faster.

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