Kb 2.2l or turbo-kit?

*Pokes DMAN in the eyes*

There... now EVERYTHING is red... and kinda blurry.

Daggar said:

I agree. Yours offers no technical theory, fact, question, opinion, or experience. Quite possibly the most worthless post in the entirety of this thread so far. "Belts are for holding your pants up"??? Is that all? I mean.. You came all the way over to 5oh talk section to say "Belts are for holding your pants up"???? Hmmmm... I then, shall respond with an equally brilliant reply.

*clears throat*

4 BANGERS ARE FOR POWERING LAWN MOWERS

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Boy you are stupid!! Lets see crank drag vs exhaust hp........ummmmm you do the work smarty. And if your local how about i bring out the turbo4 and wipe my ass with your 5beater.... i meant 5.0. Let me hear it "My car runs 9's and its poopercharged

tiny4lx said:

Boy you are stupid!! Lets see crank drag vs exhaust hp........ummmmm you do the work smarty. And if your local how about i bring out the turbo4 and wipe my ass with your 5beater.... i meant 5.0. Let me hear it "My car runs 9's and its poopercharged

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Oh brother. Another grade schooler.

Would someone please at least brief their children on the issues before allowing them to enter?

Its okay daggar, a lot of people are more concerned about building track/dyno queens b/c they are number whores.

NOBODY IS SAYING A SUPERCHARGER IS BETTER THAN A TURBO, ITS JUST A LOT OF FUN ON THE STREET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Daggar...clear your PMs!!

Daggar said:

Oh brother. Another grade schooler.

Would someone please at least brief their children on the issues before allowing them to enter?

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Dag my friend i was past childhood 18+ years ago. You seem as if your the man with all the answers on this site and its kinda funny. Ok lets leave the turbo4 out of this. How about you run my Monte with spray against whatever you have?????? Drag radial to Drag radial

All im saying is why put something [supercharger] on your car only to back step. Yes its easy to do and can make power,but why not just put a power adder on the car make power not take some away and add a % of it.
And i had a paxton before and then i saw where the real power is made....TURBO

Damn,you turbo guys are acting like the Borg....

"You will convert,you will adapt to our systems,out performing us is futile-TURBO NOW!"

And,if your getting into parasict loose,than nitrous is king cause it has NO parasitic loose.

bluevenom867 said:

Damn,you turbo guys are acting like the Borg....

"You will convert,you will adapt to our systems,out performing us is futile-TURBO NOW!"

And,if your getting into parasict loose,than nitrous is king cause it has NO parasitic loose.

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Nope just pressure build up, lol. No one here is saying turbos are god because they are not, they create a lot of heat and are a bitch to build. BUT, has anyone here with a blower actually been in a turbo car??? Wheres Mike, tt91 when you need him. Why don't you think every factory built 4cylinder car is blown? If you can put a 4banger into the 12's with a turbo imagine what can be done with a v8.

this may cause flamming but some of the replies on this board right now remind me of replies from many ricers This is a mustang board were all brothers and sisters here

Daggar- What kind of kills have you done with thr KB? Vettes/Vipers?

ms93gt said:

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/turbo+mustang/0/7C9C1217-2705-4F1A-970D-293445B409F8.htm

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I was gonna say, lol, sounds just like replies on streetfire......

no replacement for displacement....... i only have a 3.8L........per bank





































well i'd throw a procharger on my 466, if i had the money

so im with daggar all the way on this one.

ms93gt said:

Nope just pressure build up, lol. No one here is saying turbos are god because they are not, they create a lot of heat and are a bitch to build. BUT, has anyone here with a blower actually been in a turbo car??? Wheres Mike, tt91 when you need him. Why don't you think every factory built 4cylinder car is blown? If you can put a 4banger into the 12's with a turbo imagine what can be done with a v8.

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I rode in mikes car the night before he crashed it. Yes it was better than any supercharger car Ive ever been in, and definitally the fastest car Ive ever been in, but, it cost way more than a supercharger to build =]

tiny4lx said:

Boy you are stupid!! Lets see crank drag vs exhaust hp........ummmmm you do the work smarty. And if your local how about i bring out the turbo4 and wipe my ass with your 5beater.... i meant 5.0. Let me hear it "My car runs 9's and its poopercharged

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You better watch out Dagg, that 14.08 is gonna TAKE YOU OUT!!!

ms93gt said:

Nope just pressure build up, lol. No one here is saying turbos are god because they are not, they create a lot of heat and are a bitch to build. BUT, has anyone here with a blower actually been in a turbo car??? Wheres Mike, tt91 when you need him. Why don't you think every factory built 4cylinder car is blown? If you can put a 4banger into the 12's with a turbo imagine what can be done with a v8.

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You mean the 25k car that runs 12's???????

TRIPLE POST!!!!

VTAK FTW!!!!!!!

tiny4lx said:

Dag my friend i was past childhood 18+ years ago. You seem as if your the man with all the answers on this site and its kinda funny. Ok lets leave the turbo4 out of this. How about you run my Monte with spray against whatever you have?????? Drag radial to Drag radial

All im saying is why put something [supercharger] on your car only to back step. Yes its easy to do and can make power,but why not just put a power adder on the car make power not take some away and add a % of it.
And i had a paxton before and then i saw where the real power is made....TURBO

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Ok... I'm sure I've explained this already but I'll give it one more shot.

ALL (repeated) ALL forced induction power adders have parasitic loss. A turbo's biggest strength is it's efficiency (and they seem to be getting better year by year). If you have anything less than a free flowing exhaust then it's a loss.

Installing a supercharger, (unless it's a total POS) is not "taking a step backwards". The net result is a positive one. You're able to make more power with it than without it. Under the rational that it's a step backwards, I might ask the question, "Why would anyone run anything but the most efficient, computer controlled, turbo on the market? Running anything else would be a step backward so we can throw all other turbos away."

Of course that's nonsense but it's there to illustrate a point.

Now... When I went looking for a power adder I went looking specifically for a street application. I looked at centrifugal, I looked at turbos (many many different kits), and looked at Roots and Twin Screw blowers (there were basically 4 brand options to choose from). I knew I wanted instant response from the get-go. Having to installing steep gears hung over my head like a cloud. I was driving (at the time) 6 hours one way, once a week.

To give a little background, I'm an aircraft Crew Chief and jet engine specialist. I work with nothing but gear heads day in and day out. Some are Chevy fans, some are Ford fans, some are import guys (no-body's perfect). So anyway, I started shopping. I talked mostly to the Ford and Chevy guys since the majority of the power adders can be had for either one. I started driving their cars. Vortec, ATI, one or two home built turbo cars, and a single turbo kit car who's manufacturer I don't recall. Took me for ever to make up my freaking mind. The Centri kits were one hell of allot cheaper than the turbo kits and were a whole lot easier to install. I screwed around for more than year not quite able to make myself cut that big check out for forced induction. Then this tool (a dude I didn't care much for and shall remain nameless) was talking crap about his KB powered 95. Needless to say, I took a ride with him. I was hooked. It was exactly what "I" thought a car should feel like when you stomp on the gas.

There's no pressing the pedal down and leaning forward to urge the car to go on.

There's no hesitation between the word "GO" and when the power hits the road.

Getting into and out of the gas is incredible! The only way that you know it's a supercharged car is the top end whine when you stay in it.

It's an ALWAYS ON power adder.

THAT's what I wanted. THAT's what I was looking for. THAT's exactly what I got from the KB. It's big block power in a small block package.

Nitrous.. we know all the shortcoming. Refilling the bottles, solenoids, purge valves, etc.

Centri blowers take time to spool and have some pretty high discharge temps but make a butt load of power once they get into their efficiency range.

Turbos also take time to spool but do (if properly sized and installed) spool quickly. Their discharge temps are insanely high and an inter-cooler is a requirement. Too large of a turbo and you'll be counting till Xmas before you feel the grunt. Too small and it'll put you back in your seat but top end will be lack lustre. Computer controlled, variable vane, turbos are expensive as all hell and still require all the bells and whistles that all the other turbos require PLUS. Then there's the good match. Nice HP, great torque but no "UNF". Getting in and out of the gas on the street was decent but not instant. There's always a little detectable "play time" in transition.

Then there's the Twin Screw. Not as impressive on the dyno as a nicely matched turbo kit but holy crap... the feeling you get from it inside the cockpit is awesome! It feels like part of the engine. Operation is seamless. The damned thing is damned near maintenance free and required NO inter-cooler to run as much as 14 to 16 lbs of boost! No water to air, air to air, not even an oil tap. Prior to getting to feel what this thing was like, I was torn between the ATI Procharger, and a much more expensive turbo kit. They seemed like the best options for an "install and forget" street power adder. After feeling what the KB was like, I had no trouble writing that check. I was on the phone with Kennedy's Dyno tune in New York and asked him every question I could come up with that I couldn't get an answer to from either the net or other folks.

Some of the folks in this thread act as if parasitic loss through the crank is the only kind of parasitic loss there is and that it's some huge boon or something. It's not, it's part of the deal folks! Yes! There's is a loss with turbos as well and yes... it's still a percentage of the whole. As far as crank driven power adders are concerned, Eaton (roots), Kenne Bell, and Whipple, have the LEAST parasitic losses. Try and keep in mind that the supercharger runs off a regular ole 6 rib serpentine belt for my street app. here. Also try to keep in mind that boost controllers for turbos restrict exhaust more, the higher you crank them up (that's not the only boost controller issue but again... just illustrating a point) so you're still increasing the parasitic loss as you use the turbo to make more power.

I guess the point is that there is ALWAYS a trade off somewhere. When considering a power adder, consider those features that you want most. For me, it was instantaneous reaction. I do not need to be able to squeak every ounce of HP out of the engine combo. I do not require a dyno sheet that shows me 1.21 GigaHorsePower. I don't even really want to know there's a power adder under the hood but I damned sure want to feel the result from it.

Gas mileage? Same as every other forced induced Mustang out there. It's determined by how much and for how long you got your foot into the gas pedal.

Crappy gas? Unplug the Vac line from the bypass valve and ride on N/A (not happened to me yet).

I run 16* of timing on 91 Octane gas with 9-10 lbs of boost and an AFR of 12.1 to 12.5!

It is absolutely 100% streetable, smogable, and great kick in the gut when you put for foot down! What's not to like? lol Some of you guys act as if my trade off of torque and instant power for a few HP is like giving birth to the anti-Christ or something. Maybe it's yourselves you're trying to convince, I don't know. I picked the power adder I picked because it's "strengths" were what I wanted in forced induction. Your wants may be different. Choose your own power adder. It makes no difference to me but I'd be happy to answer questions for anyone considering a twin screw.

Just for the record... I LOVE to see a badass turbo car go screaming down the road just as much as the next guy!

Occasionally in this forum, a good conversation gets going that contains a LOT of useful information. Those are great threads. What kills me is when these "little kids" (some not so little but act it) come along to ruin it by either spouting garbage, internet myth, or just plain ole' inaccuracies then arguing about it until they're blue in the face. You can show relevant information, back it up with relevant data, then *poof*... they're onto the next piece of useless drama in an effort to keep from having to ever admit they were wrong. The icing on the cake is that it seems that few of these folks know how to have a "c-o-n-v-e-r-s-a-t-i-o-n". Instead of asking a question to clear up a misunderstanding, they jump on the asshat wagon and begin the "my dad can beat up your dad" approach.

Folks... there a LOT of people on this forum that know a LOT of stuff. There are folks that seem to know squat about much of anything but can surprise you with what they know about a particular item. Some of the folks that used to spend a lot of time here, don't anymore because they get tired of all the petty B.S. on this forum. I can think of two off the top of my head. One that still comes in occasionally while the other hasn't been seen here for months. I've been spending a HUGE amount of time in the TALK section lately just cutting up and having a good time instead of attempting to offer assistance or get information from the Tech forum. This thread is a good example as to why. Too many morons running around trying to pick a fight to convince everyone else that they're right about something as opposed to having a "c-o-n-v-e-r-s-a-t-i-o-n".

The only reason my inbox is currently over it's quota is because folks don't feel like they can have a conversation in the forum. That's nuts! I mean... isn't that what the forum is for? lol

Anyway... If you happen to like turbos, GREAT! So do I! In my particular case, the turbo didn't have the characteristics that I wanted MOST in a power adder. It's not to say though, that I won't go out one day and get one. The thought crosses my mind all the time... particularly now that my Dart build is getting towards completion. My concern with the current project, is that it may produce too much torque too quickly to be useful. I will have to wait and see.

Aliate X said:

I rode in mikes car the night before he crashed it. Yes it was better than any supercharger car Ive ever been in, and definitally the fastest car Ive ever been in, but, it cost way more than a supercharger to build =]

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Yep... you are 100% correct! Let's not also forget though, that Mike's long block was ALSO badass all by itself. My point? Combo, Combo, Combo!

Tonys89GT said:

You better watch out Dagg, that 14.08 is gonna TAKE YOU OUT!!!

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You noticed that too did you? lol

good thread, its pushed me to my decision for my future power adder