Larocca's doesn't know how to fix my 93. WTF????

Converters do have to get hot to effectively do their job. They reburn (oxidize) any unburned fuel (hydrocarbons) that enters them and the secondary air injection (smog pump) aids in this process. They are designed to only burn small amounts (a few hundred parts per million). Yet if too much unburned fuel enters them it overloads the converters causing them to run excessively hot and begin to melt.
My converters may need to be repalced regardless due to the fact that they have taken a beating on numerous accounts during their short time on my car.
As far as exhaust gas analysis.....I could do this but the levels of hydrocarbons I would expect to be very high due to the fact that the cam is not emissions legal.
How will the nunber help me? I mean its not like I have anything to compare the number to other than what they are supposed to be on a stock mustang with all smog stuff in tact.

Ranchero5.0: When the motor was swapped from stock I introduced the 75 mm maf, 24# injectors, and bypassed the smog pump. That's all. I thought it was just a function of my camshaft that was giving me such bad emissions due to the specs which were .555/.565 224/232 112 LSA.
I put converters on to kill the smell and it did but brought along my problem now.

I think I may start a post to see if anyone is running a cam close to those specs and whether or not the cats are on. If the cats aren't there, how is the smell.
I dont necessarilly care if I can past emissions test...I only care about keeping the smell I've been complaining about down to a reasonable level which at this point, is not.

From http://www.fordracing.com/parts/search/

This is a description of the EPEC. This is why I am hoping that Larocca knows how to tune a mustang thus eliminating my problem as being in the tune-

Manual transmission only.

The Ford Extreme Performance Engine Control (EPEC) system is a Mass-Air control system that interfaces with your on board EEC-IV and many of the now available SVO air meters, injectors, nitrous, etc.


The Extreme Performance Engine Control System offers features that are found only in professional systems that cost in an excess of $30,000. The user friendly interface uses terms such as Air/Fuel Ratio during calibration, unlike other systems that expect the operator to calibrate in 'milliseconds of fuel pulse width'.


The Extreme Performance Engine Control System can be installed and operated in as little as ten minutes, so that the user can concentrate on calibration and not installation. The system is delivered with a default calibration that can be recalled and reverted back to your original calibration at any time in case the user gets into trouble.


Along with you lap-top or desk-top personal computer the EPEC system will be a formidable force to be reckonedwith for years to come.


The initial release of the Extreme Performance Engine Control System is intended for the 1988-93 and 1994-95 Mustang and Cobra. This system will also work with vehicles with like equipment and ECC-IBV pinout. Call the Tech Hot Line for more information.


The Extreme Performance Engine Control System offers features that are not found on any other EFI system at twice the cost. This system offers the most comprehensive list of user calibratable features that are not foundon any other competition system available today. These features include:


Fuel Control: Idle fuel control, part throttle fuel control, W.O.T. fuel control, transitional fuel enrichment, air temperature correction, engine temperature correction, injector offset correction and absolute throttle position control.


Spark Control: Idle spark control, part throttle spark control, W.O.T. spark control, air temperature spark correction, engine temperature spark correction, barometric pressure spark correction, absolute throttle position spark correction, mass air-flow spark correction, boost retard, stage 1 nitrous control spark retard and stage 2 nitrous control spark retard.


EPEC Harness Kits: Hook up your EPEC to a second vehicle.

-M-12581-Z88 (1998-93 Mustang.)

-M-12581-Z94 (1994-95 Mustang.)


Nitrous Controls: Minimum-on throttle angle, maximum-off throttle angle, maximum engine speed, 'ON' delay after maximum engine speed, (STAGE 1, delay minimum engine speed and spark retard), (STAGE 2, delay minimum engine speed & spark retard).


Engine Speed Limiters: Overall fuel engine speed limiter, overall spark engine speed limiter, stage or launch limiter with dynamic RPM limiter & Cut-in RPM control.


User Programmable Outputs: These outputs are designed to drive external relays or high impedance solenoids based on the user defined requirements.


Analog Inputs: Allows the user to use external devices such as thermal couples, fuel pressure transducers, accelerometer etc. for logging data.


Engine Configuration Parameters: Engine displacement, injector size, air meter transfer function, air temperature transfer function, engine temperature transfer function, barometric sensor transfer function, throttle position transfer function, manifold pressure sensor transfer function, throttle position idle to part break point, throttle position idle to W.O.T. break point, throttle position mode hysteresis & ignition module type.


Data Acquisition: Up to 16 channels simultaneously.


High Speed Data Logging.


Factory Tech Support.


Minimum Computer Requirement: IBM compatible 80486-66 or better. Windows 3.1, 3.11 or Windows 95.

A 3.5 floppy disk drive. At least 8 megs of RAM. 16 megs is recommended. 25 megs of free hard drive space. Additional software copies M-12500-V196.


Requires lap-top or desk-top Computer (not supplied).


Not legal for sale or use on pollution-controlled motor vehicles.

Extreme performance engine control EPEC

Well I guess I may get my exhaust gases analyzed to see exactly what is happening with the motor like Pops suggested. I saw some info (numbers) on this site.
http://www.planet-equipment.com/gasanalysis.html

I 've gone over and over this through my head and with other knowledgeable stang buddies and they too are stumped if all the info I have provided is accurate. I may just go with the heads. I don't know. My mind changes back and forth. I just want this to be over with.
I may even hook all the smog stuff back up as well and get new converters and see about running with my O2s. I'll know more hopefully after speaking with Larocca.

1hot5.0: Just like fords2fast4u has mentioned, With the EPEC I don't need any feedback from the O2s.

I spoke with Jimmy larocca yessterday with regards to all of this. He says the folowing:

The O2s have been eliminated because they foul fairly quickly when running a blower due to the fact that you run fairly rich when under boost. In time, this makes the O2s become less accurate in readings back to the EEC. The O2s are to keep you close to 14.7:1 when at idle or cruise. He says at idle with no O2s I will run a little richer than if I had the O2s connected (especially on a humid day). The EEC is still recieving feedback from all other sensors (ECT, ACT, MAF) so I am not like in a real "Open loop" scenario. The EEC does have stored data tables that it will refer back to.
Jimmy also says even when cruising and using a blower, you still want the a/f a little richer than if the motor was n/a.
Needless to say, I will run a little richer than stoich. at idle with no O2s but nothing that significant. The EEC still relies on info from the maf and other sensors.

ArtMan: My air/fuel was done last time with an offroad h-pipe so it is correct as per Larocca. The EPEC has datalog capabilities which was done to verify injector pulse width, maf signal, ect.
If a/f were done with the converters on they can either verify it pre-cat or run it a little richer if verifying at tailpipe.
Larocca says they have verified air/fuel to be good. They say its not an electrical or tuning problem to the best of his knowledge. He seems to think it is something in the motro whether it be heads or something with my pistons/rings/ring lands ect.

Here is what is happening now: I borught them my stock h-pipe that I know is working fine. They are going to hook up the smog pump and all to see if my problem still exists with the glowing coverters. If so, they say they have to look into the motor (tear it down). If they say something with my motor I don't know what I am going to do.

ArtMan: The last time Larocca measured air/fuel was with an offroad h-pipe. Then they through my converters back on. So the air/fuel reading did not have to account for converters.

I don't know what "rich" smells like. All I know is it is honestly horrible. Engine does not run hot with offroad h-pipe. Everything is cool.

I think Jimmy is trying to say that there could be a broken ring land on something causing some oil to get into the combustion chamber and on its way to my coverters. He says a compression test or leakdown test doesn't always show this. (I don't see any blue smoke though).

Cue-Ball: I think doing an exhaust gas analysis was mentioned already. My question to you is: Being that I have a non-emissions legal cam, how am I supposed to tell where the emissions should be? Its not like I can compare it to a stock set up. My only numbers to go by were in the website "Pops" mentions below. What if my cam is so that it will never fall in that acceptable range?? Or should it regardless of how big it is if it is burning correctly???

Stealth coupe: I've mentioned that to Larocca already and they say there is no way I would make power if that was the case. In addition I would be backfiring or bogging. (I agree)

Pop-Pops-Pony: They are saying I will be fine with no O2s and no chip to piggyback the stock EEC. They say there are many cars they've done out there like that. Larocca says that the O2s are to keep u very close to 14.7:1 at idle and cruise by constantly signaling the EEC to either shorten or lenghthen the injector pulse width. Without the O2s I run a little richer at idle and cruise but not to far off from stoich. air/fuel. And not rich enough to create this problem of mine.

I will ask them about an exhaust gas analysis tomorrow. They weren't able to put the stoch hpipe and smog setup on today.

I was considering doing the heads a week ago when they suggested them but not too sure. Now they are saying my problem may not be limited to just a set of heads but maybe something further in the motor...I don't think I am going for that. I just think that is way too far to go without a definite diagnosis of the problem. This is crazy...they are saying anything and everything but the kitchen sink.