Longtubes vs Shorty headers

Grn92LX · May 31, 2005

Does anyone have any proof as to what kinda power longtubes are worth over shortys on say a 400hp street car? I'm not talking about the expensive custom race headers, i'm talking (for example) a mac shorty header vs a mac longtube. I'm looking for dyno and track numbers. Reason I'm asking also is because I have a mcleod sfi bell and the fit is tight with longtubes so in the event down the road I ever have to drop the trans, its gonna be a nightmare. So, i'm wondering if its worth the hassle to do 1 3/4" longtubes or just use 1 3/4" shortys? I KNOW longtubes are overall better for power, i'm just wondring if its worth the hassle if I keep my sfi bellhousing and don't sell it. Also looking for examples of gains on a car like mine, not a stock 14 second 302.

90Notch · May 31, 2005

There was guy over on Corral some time back who swapped just his 1 5/8" shorties for LTs and picked up like 10 ft-lbs & hp across the board. Motor wasn't as powerful as yours but was AFR165s, Cobra Int, TFS-1, etc. making @300rwhp/330rwtq.

5spd GT · May 31, 2005

90notch - If it is the one I was thinking of...that was in the midrange.

That is the commonly used guy to defend the longtubes...there is examples of shorties out powering longtubes as well...

Rick 91GT · May 31, 2005

I would say longtubes will be worth power on your combo Mike....

Grn92LX · May 31, 2005

Is that Saul's (GrnTrunk) car your talking about? I remember that a while ago and he gained over 1 mph at the track.

I have a graph on my computer of a guy from corral going from shortys to LT's. I am prety sure he said the graph was shorty vs LT. There was a ton of mid range gained from 2500-4200rpm.

I think i'm gonna sell my mcleod SFI bell to my friend like I told him I would and buy a regular tremec bell housing and run longtubes like I know I should.

Anyone else has example, feel free to post.

Aliate X · May 31, 2005

Shorties are for near stock motors.

Long tubes are for H/C/I + motors.

Rick 91GT · May 31, 2005

Grn92LX said:
Is that Saul's (GrnTrunk) car your talking about? I remember that a while ago and he gained over 1 mph at the track.

I have a graph on my computer of a guy from corral going from shortys to LT's. I am prety sure he said the graph was shorty vs LT. There was a ton of mid range gained from 2500-4200rpm.

I think i'm gonna sell my mcleod SFI bell to my friend like I told him I would and buy a regular tremec bell housing and run longtubes like I know I should.

Anyone else has example, feel free to post.

Mike, buddy just make sure you get a blowproof, your feet are worth it! I've seen what happens to one when you blow it...

Grn92LX · May 31, 2005

Rick, keeping the sfi bell was the main reason I thought of just going with shortys. The longtubes and sfi bell will be a nightmare if I ever had to pull the trans out or even pull the headers out. I know i'll lose power with the shortys, but i'd make life easier for myself in the event I have to work on the trans.

A while ago I was messin around on the street with my friends turbo dodge car and all of a sudden his bellhousing cracked and the flywheel must have shot forward, then the air bag went off. Now this all happened near 100mph ish. So I know what you mean about wanting a blowproof bell. Its just longtubes and a blowproof bell = a fu cking nightmare if you ever have to work on the trans or pull the header.

Rick 91GT · May 31, 2005

Kooks long tubes, come apart and will help solve that issue. Not sure if you bought longtubes or not, Bill may still have those kooks.

Grn92LX · May 31, 2005

Yeah I looked into those and thought about buying them until I saw that the adapter plates were about $100 and then the 3" x pipe was over $300. All said and done thats about a $1000 exhaust which I can't swing for a street car.

I actually bought bassani logntubes, but I sold them the other day because they were gonna be a PITA and worth me losing my patience.

Yet another decision..

By the way, Rick did you get my Email I sent you the other day?

Matts89LX5.0 · May 31, 2005

rick i sent you a pm the other day

TIMMY2734 · May 31, 2005

I pulled my tranny out fine with the long tubes still attached. Geting the Mcleod down was a different story though.... Wasnt bad at all though. I loosened up the passenger header, maybe 15minutes of work... nothing horrible.

Whatever headers you do run, out it on some blocks, bolt the scattershield on and then the headers. Bang whatever whatever needs to be clearanced and be done with it. Thats what we did with the Bassanis and the BBKs i have. The BBKs cleared the bell without a problem. I just banged the #4 tube to clear the firewall and that was it. One thing I shouldve done was weld on a real collector, but I was lazy and dont plan on having this motor for too long.

Grn92LX · May 31, 2005

Thats exactly what i'm talking about Timmy. Getting that huge bulky mcleod bell out with longtubes in the way down the road if I ever need to. The shortys would obvioiusly be a lot easier to work with BUT i'm giving up power. I wish I knew for sure how much power i'd be giving up using a 1 3/4" shorty instead of a 1 3/4" bbk longtube?

TIMMY2734 · May 31, 2005

Its really no big deal to unblot the header and move it. Your talking a couple of inches, at least in my case it is.

I personally find it easier unbolting the passenger side header than putting in a shorty H pipe. Its a job that I just find annoying, not difficult, just a PITA

horseplay91 · May 31, 2005

Grn92LX said:
I actually bought bassani logntubes, but I sold them the other day because they were gonna be a PITA and worth me losing my patience.

why were they going to be a PITA?

5spd GT · May 31, 2005

Unbolting headers are no big deal at all...you just need to "bump" them over after that...your not doing a longtube header install at all. Just moving it over.

Get the longtubes.

Grn92LX · Jun 1, 2005

horseplay91 said:
why were they going to be a PITA?

They are slip fit design and the collector they slip into is extremely tight fit. 2 tubes on the drivers side go in between the steering shaft. All the tubes go in one ata time and then you "slip" the collector on (if only it was as simple as it sounds) You'd need a big fuggin hammer and a block of wood to bang the collector on.

As of now i'm swinging towards LT's.

Matts89LX5.0 · Jun 1, 2005

mike go with long tubes, they won't be bad like you think they will

Rick 91GT · Jun 1, 2005

Mike, chalk it up to having a performance car...you need the long tubes, and the blowproof bell. Your motor will be ready to ship next week so you better decide quick.

I would e-mail Bill about the Kooks again...I can direct you to a Kooks dealer who should be able to help you out on adapter plates.

Grn92LX · Jun 1, 2005

Rick 91GT said:
Your motor will be ready to ship next week so you better decide quick.

Its finally out of the shop? Btw, I guess you didn't get my Email. But what kinda compression am I looking at with a 55.6cc head and a .039" gasket? I'm thinking around 11.2:1 ish.

Those kooks are nice i'm sure but its a lot of dough.

Matt, I know the longtubes won't be bad to install. Its just removing them down the road and/or removing the tranny and bell which will be a pain. I think i'll go with the bbk longtubes like i planned.

Longtubes vs Shorty headers

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