Looking for some Headers!

DJs350H · Dec 11, 2003

I just had my 289 stroker motor engine dynoed and it made 562 hp @ 6910 rpm and 454 ft-lb @4220. I was originally planning to get some custom headers made, but right now I don't have the money. So I'm trying to find a set of long tube headers that will allow me to change my spark plugs easily, have pretty decent ground clearance, and won't choke the motor. I've had it with the Sanderson Shorties (I got them for ground clearance) I had in the car before I pulled the motor, and I don't want a repeat of the bad experiences. I just figured I'd ask the experts who have real world experience with the parts.

So what is a good long tube header, with few fitting issues, good ground clearance, that will allow me to change plugs, and has good performance--if such a beast exists?

DJ

Edbert · Dec 11, 2003

562HP?!?!?!? No wonder you cannot afford headers! LOL

Hooker SuperComps are generally considered the best performing of the major brands. For your mill you may want or need something custom though, particularly since you have a 65-66 and the smaller compartment. I think using long tubes are by definition poor ground clearance, especially if you have lowered your car. If you are having trouble keeping the headers sealed against the heads consider getting a set that has 4 flanges per side, they make the gaskets tougher to deal with but should provide a better seal. With that kind of power output your're gonna have some high pressures too.

Got any pics or specs of that motor?

EDIT: typos

slapper · Dec 11, 2003

Hooker Comps don't hang down quite as low as the supercomps.
I have been very happy with them for all the reasons you've listed.
What heads are installed?
Angled or straight plugs?

hhead · Dec 11, 2003

DJs350H said:
I just had my 289 stroker motor engine dynoed and it made 562 hp @ 6910 rpm and 454 ft-lb @4220. I was originally planning to get some custom headers made, but right now I don't have the money. So I'm trying to find a set of long tube headers that will allow me to change my spark plugs easily, have pretty decent ground clearance, and won't choke the motor. I've had it with the Sanderson Shorties (I got them for ground clearance) I had in the car before I pulled the motor, and I don't want a repeat of the bad experiences. I just figured I'd ask the experts who have real world experience with the parts.

So what is a good long tube header, with few fitting issues, good ground clearance, that will allow me to change plugs, and has good performance--if such a beast exists?

DJ

definitely long tubes. it is proven that the length of the collector, changes your torque and power curve.
depending on your application dictates your header: auto, stick, p/s are the three biggies.
but i do have a BRAND NEW set of hedman long tubes, Jet Hot Coated: c4, p/s 67' 289/302. again, if they fit your app. there was an issue for my tri-y's, with the bottom scraping.
i changed trans, and the new hedman's were NEVER going to fit. besides if they fit i'm right here in the south bay!
the problem with leaks, if they persist, soak the gaskets in water before install.
if that doesn't do it, are you sure the bolts aren't coming loose. try stage 8 if so.
changing plugs?? never had that problem. the long tube header style you won't run into that problem with your basic 289/302 head.

fastback brian · Dec 11, 2003

hooker comps and super comps would give about the same performance, super comps fit the world products heads, comps have a shorter tube lenght and are made with 16 guage. I am in the same situation as you and instead of getting another set of super comps I'll be goin to accufab for a set of 1 3/4 long tubes for 500 bucks. Your power numbers are almost exactly the same as my engine is projected to produce according to my builder.

65shlbycln · Dec 12, 2003

MUST...SEE...PICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DJs350H · Dec 13, 2003

Engine Eye Candy

Edbert - No kidding, 562HP, that’s exactly why I can’t afford some custom headers!!!! LOL. I’m positive my engine needs some custom headers to maximize performance....in fact all performance motors do. I’ve been doing a lot of research about custom headers and I found a company (Burns Stainless) that has a computer program that takes your engine information and spits out dimensions for every aspect of your custom header e.g. collector diameter, primary diameter, length of transition tubes, 4-into-1 collector, or tri-y design etc. Apparently the results are amazing, even over "regular custom headers" that are supposed to flow better due to less design compromises. They even say that a tri-y design is optimum for almost 90% of applications out there, especially since they have so many extra dimensions to tweak to maximize performance.

So basically I was just trying to see what everyone else thought about the headers they have, because I’m going to have to live with something for a few years before I can buy my next set of headers. The stainless version will probably come in at about $1500, and I’m a poor college kid that can’t afford that right now--especially since the motor. I heard Hooker Super comps were the best too, but I also heard that they create the most fitting problems. I also have power steering and a Toploader 4-speed, so I was worried they may not work with my application. I think they might also hang very low which is a problem since my car is a little lower in the front--by how much I don’t know.

I’ve only had two header designs on my Stangs. The first is the classic tri-y design that hangs way low, like on my coupe. My coupe isn’t lowered and even they scrape sometimes, so I know I can’t use them on the Fastback. The other was the Sanderson Shorty Headers that were a pain to get on. The collector was short, and angled in towards the engine so it was almost impossible to get three bolts on the collector (so it would leak when they vibrated loose), they also blocked the use of a socket on the #4 and #8 plugs, so sometimes the plugs would vibrate loose no matter how I tried to tighten them. So I’ll never put those pieces o’ s*#t in my car again.

Slapper - I have Trick Flow Specialties Twisted Wedge Heads with angled plugs. One of the pipes on the old headers completely blocked off one of my plugs, and the flange didn’t allow the use of a socket on the other, so that is where the problems came from.

hhead - I’ve got a 65 with a 289, 4 speed Toploader, power steering, and I have to worry about groung clearance. I don’t know, will they fit?

fasback brian - It sounds like a lot of people have this same problem. I guess I’m just looking for something that’ll give the most power, yet still fit. I guess I’m just trying not to spend too much money either, but I’ve always taken performance over money for the most part. This next set of headers is just a temporary solution until I get the custom headers made.

65shlbycln - Ok here is the fun part.....I have some eye candy for you--let me resize some phots real quick. Here are the pics I took right before the engine went off for the dyno tune, as well as a shot during the dyno tune. I have some video of the tune too, but the sound is horrible and that is the most important part of the video. I guess my computer couldn’t keep up with the download from the camera.

Thanks everyone for you responses!
DJ

P.S. Here are the engine specs:
Block: Vintage 289
Bore: 4.060
Stroke: 3.4
Cubic Inches: 352
Crankshaft: Scat 4340 Forged Steel
Compression: 10.8:1
Rods: Scat 4340 Forged Steel H-Beam
Pistons: JE/SRP Forged Aluminum dished for 10.8:1 compression
Rings: Total Seal
Bearings: Clevite 77
Camshaft: Competition Cams Custom Hydraulic Roller
Timing Chain: Pro Gear Competition Timing Set
Rockers: Crane Cams 1.72 Ratio Gold Race Rockers
Lifters: Competition Cams Rollers
Pushrods: Manley
Oil Pump: Mellings
Oil Pan: Canton Road Race 9 Quart
Ignition: MSD Digital 6 Ignition, MSD Coil, MSD Pro-Billet Dist
Pulleys: Stock for now
Crank Dampner: BHJ Competition
Engine Mounts: TCP
Water Pump: Aluminum Edelbrock Victor Jr.
Miscellaneous: ARP bolts on and in everything

Cylinder Head Specifications --
Brand & Model: Trick Flow Specialties Twisted Wedge
Valves: 2.02/1.98
Port Work: Full Competition Port and Polish, five angle valve job
Components: Isky--Roller springs, 10 degree locks and retainers, positive valve stem seals
Gaskets: Fel Pro Performance
Miscellaneous: Resurfaced, better valve guides and hardware

Induction System Specifications --
Intake: Polished Cobra Aluminum Hi-Rise
Port Work: Intake to head matching port job
T-Body / Carb: Holley 4150 HP--750 cfm mechanical secondaries

Miscellaneous--
Flywheel / Converter: Billet Steel Centerforce
Clutch Setup: Centerforce Dual Friction

hhead · Dec 13, 2003

DJs350H said:
Edbert - No kidding, 562HP, that’s exactly why I can’t afford some custom headers!!!! LOL. I’m positive my engine needs some custom headers to maximize performance....in fact all performance motors do. I’ve been doing a lot of research about custom headers and I found a company (Burns Stainless) that has a computer program that takes your engine information and spits out dimensions for every aspect of your custom header e.g. collector diameter, primary diameter, length of transition tubes, 4-into-1 collector, or tri-y design etc. Apparently the results are amazing, even over "regular custom headers" that are supposed to flow better due to less design compromises. They even say that a tri-y design is optimum for almost 90% of applications out there, especially since they have so many extra dimensions to tweak to maximize performance.

So basically I was just trying to see what everyone else thought about the headers they have, because I’m going to have to live with something for a few years before I can buy my next set of headers. The stainless version will probably come in at about $1500, and I’m a poor college kid that can’t afford that right now--especially since the motor. I heard Hooker Super comps were the best too, but I also heard that they create the most fitting problems. I also have power steering and a Toploader 4-speed, so I was worried they may not work with my application. I think they might also hang very low which is a problem since my car is a little lower in the front--by how much I don’t know.

I’ve only had two header designs on my Stangs. The first is the classic tri-y design that hangs way low, like on my coupe. My coupe isn’t lowered and even they scrape sometimes, so I know I can’t use them on the Fastback. The other was the Sanderson Shorty Headers that were a pain to get on. The collector was short, and angled in towards the engine so it was almost impossible to get three bolts on the collector (so it would leak when they vibrated loose), they also blocked the use of a socket on the #4 and #8 plugs, so sometimes the plugs would vibrate loose no matter how I tried to tighten them. So I’ll never put those pieces o’ s*#t in my car again.

Slapper - I have Trick Flow Specialties Twisted Wedge Heads with angled plugs. One of the pipes on the old headers completely blocked off one of my plugs, and the flange didn’t allow the use of a socket on the other, so that is where the problems came from.

hhead - I’ve got a 65 with a 289, 4 speed Toploader, power steering, and I have to worry about groung clearance. I don’t know, will they fit?

fasback brian - It sounds like a lot of people have this same problem. I guess I’m just looking for something that’ll give the most power, yet still fit. I guess I’m just trying not to spend too much money either, but I’ve always taken performance over money for the most part. This next set of headers is just a temporary solution until I get the custom headers made.

65shlbycln - Ok here is the fun part.....I have some eye candy for you--let me resize some phots real quick. Here are the pics I took right before the engine went off for the dyno tune, as well as a shot during the dyno tune. I have some video of the tune too, but the sound is horrible and that is the most important part of the video. I guess my computer couldn’t keep up with the download from the camera.

Thanks everyone for you responses!
DJ

P.S. Here are the engine specs:
Block: Vintage 289
Bore: 4.060
Stroke: 3.4
Cubic Inches: 352
Crankshaft: Scat 4340 Forged Steel
Compression: 10.8:1
Rods: Scat 4340 Forged Steel H-Beam
Pistons: JE/SRP Forged Aluminum dished for 10.8:1 compression
Rings: Total Seal
Bearings: Clevite 77
Camshaft: Competition Cams Custom Hydraulic Roller
Timing Chain: Pro Gear Competition Timing Set
Rockers: Crane Cams 1.72 Ratio Gold Race Rockers
Lifters: Competition Cams Rollers
Pushrods: Manley
Oil Pump: Mellings
Oil Pan: Canton Road Race 9 Quart
Ignition: MSD Digital 6 Ignition, MSD Coil, MSD Pro-Billet Dist
Pulleys: Stock for now
Crank Dampner: BHJ Competition
Engine Mounts: TCP
Water Pump: Aluminum Edelbrock Victor Jr.
Miscellaneous: ARP bolts on and in everything

Cylinder Head Specifications --
Brand & Model: Trick Flow Specialties Twisted Wedge
Valves: 2.02/1.98
Port Work: Full Competition Port and Polish, five angle valve job
Components: Isky--Roller springs, 10 degree locks and retainers, positive valve stem seals
Gaskets: Fel Pro Performance
Miscellaneous: Resurfaced, better valve guides and hardware

Induction System Specifications --
Intake: Polished Cobra Aluminum Hi-Rise
Port Work: Intake to head matching port job
T-Body / Carb: Holley 4150 HP--750 cfm mechanical secondaries

Miscellaneous--
Flywheel / Converter: Billet Steel Centerforce
Clutch Setup: Centerforce Dual Friction

no, these headers would be for auto. the stick and p/s are going to be a problem. almost all long tube headers for the classic stang, use a p/s drop bracket that drops the steering linkage almost as far down as the collector flange!!
a custom set is in order. although i did have mine made for like $300. some cheap coating. can't really tell what model they are, but he definitely had to cut one or two of the tubes to allow the steering shaft to pass thru. they don't look too hot, but they work. he just takes a while for him to get to, but he does do A-1 clean work=$$$. but $300 for a set of headers might not be bad to get you thru. he's located in Rosemead.

fastback brian · Dec 13, 2003

ther is alot of good header manufactors out there but doesnt matter, the engine compartment of the 64-66 stangs will comprimize performace of any custom header. and the best setup will have the tubes hangin way out the bottom. With any off the shelf header you shouldnt have any problems with spark plug access and have some low clearance problems if the car is lowered.are you gonna need a special head port bolt patteren or port plate?
You got a good power number for using twisted wedge heads and a hydualic roller. good job indeed.

DJs350H · Dec 13, 2003

Sorry, I had to resize the photos to get them to work....here goes....enjoy the fruits of all my hard labor in the name of beauty and most importantly, POWER!

DJs350H · Dec 13, 2003

More pics:

DJs350H · Dec 13, 2003

Some more:

DJs350H · Dec 13, 2003

Final pic:

billy · Dec 14, 2003

Tubular Automotive makes a set of 1 3/4" headers for 65-66 mustang... Although two of the tubes go through the shock tower area and go around the frame rail and to the collector....

http://www.tubularheaders.com/images/racecar_23.gif

These are some pics I found on the internet... They are spose to fit pretty good also.....

Billy

Jimmah · Dec 14, 2003

OK so all this header talk has got me worried now. I have a 69 Mach 1 and was thinking of putting on Hooker Super Comps when the time came but you guys all just said they hang low. The car is gonna be lowered about 1-1 1/2. Plus what about the fitting problems? Are those fitting problems he's got b/c it's a 65-66 small engine compartment

65shlbycln · Dec 14, 2003

nice. got any pics of the car itself too?

DJs350H · Jan 8, 2004

Sorry Sooo Long

slapper said:
Hooker Comps don't hang down quite as low as the supercomps.
I have been very happy with them for all the reasons you've listed.
What heads are installed?
Angled or straight plugs?

Sorry everyone for not replying earlier, I was without internet access for the last three weeks. I think I've decided to just get some cheap headers that will fit for now. I don't want to have to cut any holes in the engine bay at this point either unless I had some hardcore dyno data to convince me it was worth it. I will get some custom headers made later becasue I've been kicking aroung the idea of getting a Griggs front suspension that will allow the shock towers to be removed, and a set of optimum custom headers made. Sounds like the Hooker comps are leading the race. Anyone else have any ideas....I don't want to spend more than $300. I'm looking for decent ground clearance, plug access, performance and fit, or as much as can be accomplished with a stock 65 Mustang enginebay.

Slapper--
So you're saying you don't have any problems with tubes passing in front of spark plugs, or not being able to get at any of the plugs with the headers installed? I've got angled plugs on my TFS heads. I was also wondering if everything fits well? Are the headers easy to install and pull off if need be? I have power steering and I was wondering if I'd have to get a drop bracket to make the headers fit with my power steering? I just want to make sure before I order. Do you have any pics?

Here is a pic of the car without the engine installed, with the enginebay painted, waiting for the headers and engine. It looks a lot better washed and in the sun....but that'll come soone enough after I decide on these headers.

DJ

D.Hearne · Jan 8, 2004

Gosh, i always thought the hardest car to put headers on was the 67-70 Big block Stangs, never seen a small block one that was that much trouble.

Edbert · Jan 8, 2004

Jimmah said:
OK so all this header talk has got me worried now. I have a 69 Mach 1 and was thinking of putting on Hooker Super Comps when the time came but you guys all just said they hang low. The car is gonna be lowered about 1-1 1/2. Plus what about the fitting problems? Are those fitting problems he's got b/c it's a 65-66 small engine compartment

Yes.

Unless you have a big block you are going to have plenty of room. I put a 351W in place of my 289 and have tons more room than I did with my 390. IIRC the 69 engine compartment is the same size as my '67, if it is not then it is bigger.

Here's some pictures of my headers right after I put them in:
Header install pictures

These are Hedmann Elites by the way. Plenty of room for a clutch linkage but you'd need the PS drop bracket.

66P51GT · Jan 8, 2004

I'm installing a set of Mac Long Tubes (hopefully) this weekend. I'll let you know how they fit in my '66 GT with power steering. They supposedly don't require you to drop the p/s bracket. I have a C4 now but am switching to a T5 with cable clutch. All the parts are in the garage, all I need is more time!

Looking for some Headers!

DJs350H

Edbert

slapper

hhead

fastback brian

65shlbycln

DJs350H

hhead

fastback brian

DJs350H

DJs350H

DJs350H

DJs350H

billy

Jimmah

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65shlbycln

DJs350H

D.Hearne

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Edbert

66P51GT

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