Digital Tuning Megasquirt help

tannerc91gt · Dec 26, 2012

This is a pretty basic concept here. Someone walk me through what parts and pieces I need to order to put together an MS set-up.
This is not for a build that I'm working on or anything, its mostly curiosity.EFI,Tuning concepts and functions is nothing I'm new to, but actual standalone systems and parts I'm pretty green to.
I know some info will be needed to get specific parts so lets assume:
87-93 car
302 based
Factory style efi
Forced induction or NA shouldn't matter as its SD based either way, but lets assume FI
factory style ignition
Car has no harness, other than body harness for locks and windows, lights etc. (IE: would I just need a factory SD efi harness to modify)
Fuel system is carbed but is an electric pump system easily converted back

I know they sell kits but I see most guys piecing their own together so I just kind of want to see the thought process laid out. Have done searches and I always research the daylight out of everything anyways, just want to see how others have done it and why they chose what they did.sorry if this rambles a bit but its late and I'm building foxes in my head as usual

Thanks,
Tanner

84Ttop · Dec 27, 2012

The spectre EMS is mega squirt based and works pretty well. they sell a universal harnesses that is pretty straight forward to install. it has a 3 bar map built in for your forced induction. it requires 2 4 pole relays (cheap) and gm sensors ( intake air temp, coolant temp, iac if you decide to use it ) and a ford tps will work it comes with a full wiring diagram that is easy to follow including the wiring needed to keep your tfi distributor of course i would recommend an msd box to support your tfi. leave the body harness and the injection harness separate. as far as the fuel pump there is a relay output to ground from the harness to trigger your fuel pump and is also easy to wire up. the last megasquirt that we installed took about 5-6 hours and was running on the dyno shortly after that ( 331 that made 840 rwhp ) we also had this system on a 454 big block mud truck with twin 70mm turbos and 49" tires and it works great. we have another car that is almost done 393 windsor w/ a novi2000 that has mega squirt.

I hope this answers some of your questions, let me know if you have more. we have been using this stuff for years and it's really easy to work with.
Good luck

tannerc91gt · Dec 27, 2012

Exactly the type of answer I was looking for. Thanks

90lxcoupe · Dec 27, 2012

I did the plug and play box, and it took me about 2 hours to set it up, if i had to do it again, it would probably take 45 minutes now that i know the software. My setup uses all the factory ford sensors.

I dont know if it would be cheaper/easier to use a mustang harness and sensors or not though.

tannerc91gt · Dec 27, 2012

What would you consider the advantages to MS over, say, PMS. Or the shortcomings compared to Big Stuff and those types.

90lxcoupe · Dec 27, 2012

The shortcomings of the ms2 is that its batch fired. Ms3 is sequential. To me it is very close to BS3 and i think tunerstudio is way better than the BS3 software. i think the support is better for bs3. Everytime i call for ms help it seems i get different answers and not much help.

Pms cant compete with a standalone. Especially considerng if you bought everything new the pms would be double the cost of the pnp ms2

CarMichael Angelo · Dec 27, 2012

Coming fr0m someone that has built a MS DIYPNP piece, intended to directly plug into the factory EEC IV harness ((sold to another member here before I ran it) and the current yet to be assembled MSII stand alone box that will require a generic, universal style engine harness. The first and obvious difference between any other already assembled box is gonna be price. The MS products, while way cheaper require you dirty up your hands from either a diy stand point, or spending a bunch of time self educating. You can buy their stuff preassembled for more money if you doubt your capabilities, but that is exactly the opposite path I chose to go w/ mine. I'll have 400.00 in a unit that will control fuel and spark, have an integral 4 bar map sensor, w/ boost control, capable of running fords EDIS module and trigger wheel for truly distributorless ignition. Since I plan to squeeze this little 4 cylinder pretty hard, I wanted to be sure I had complete tunability from the ECU.

CarMichael Angelo · Dec 27, 2012

90lxcoupe said:
The shortcomings of the ms2 is that its batch fired. Ms3 is sequential. To me it is very close to BS3 and i think tunerstudio is way better than the BS3 software. i think the support is better for bs3. Everytime i call for ms help it seems i get different answers and not much help.

Pms cant compete with a standalone. Especially considerng if you bought everything new the pms would be double the cost of the pnp ms2

My understanding of seq vs batch fire is that it is more of a gimmick. sequential firing becomes batch firing above a certain engine RPM on most of the systems out there because there just isn't the time to separately squirt fuel into each cylinder at 7000 RPM. As far as the support, It is a leap of faith,...MS relies on their forum to lend help, and for a noob, that can be daunting,...especially when the side effect is a blown up engine.

tannerc91gt · Dec 27, 2012

90lxcoupe said:
The shortcomings of the ms2 is that its batch fired. Ms3 is sequential.

pms - MS2 isn't really apples to apples but that was the answer I was looking for. Id do just fine to assemble an MS2 board myself then it sounds like. Nothing I'm building will benefit much from not being batch fired truthfully.

madmike1157 said:
The MS products, while way cheaper require you dirty up your hands from either a diy stand point, or spending a bunch of time self educating. You can buy their stuff preassembled for more money if you doubt your capabilities, but that is exactly the opposite path I chose to go w/ mine.

Actually that's exactly what I'm looking for. Kind of why I strayed from the build I was almost done with. Want this car to be MY build and MY fault if it fails. Could very easily finish the carbed motor and be done but I love this hobby because there is so much to learn. I'm honestly not interested in the finished product. Self-educating is what I'm all about and have no problems spending endless hours digging through literature and forums. Its why I paid for the education I got and still learn something every day.
I know a fair bit about tuning but am vastly behind the curve in tuning my own system. Which is what draws me to it.

Saving money doesn't hurt either, sounds like I need to get reading

tannerc91gt · Dec 28, 2012

I see they offer an adapter harness to use the stock ECU and sensors. Supposed to offer the same tuning capabilities without all of the wiring involved. Still in depth, just not as much from what I can see.
Just wondering if there are limitations going that route or if the factory Ecu fights you in any way.
Sorry if these are obvious questions, I have been digging through the diyautotune boards, just looking for personal experience and opinions in addition.
Will go ahead and start reading the megamanual and see where that leaves me, may be able to answer a lot of my questions that way

hoopty5.0 · Dec 28, 2012

Man, I've spent literally days reading on the DIY autotune boards and I feel like this is the only way to go. Keeping the factory ECU allows you to run other systems while still keeping the MS in control of fuel and spark. For the price, you can't beat it. I'll be using it on my LS build when I get to that point. Just gonna do an MS1 with extra code.

CarMichael Angelo · Dec 28, 2012

tannerc91gt said:
pms - MS2 isn't really apples to apples but that was the answer I was looking for. Id do just fine to assemble an MS2 board myself then it sounds like. Nothing I'm building will benefit much from not being batch fired truthfully.

Actually that's exactly what I'm looking for. Kind of why I strayed from the build I was almost done with. Want this car to be MY build and MY fault if it fails. Could very easily finish the carbed motor and be done but I love this hobby because there is so much to learn. I'm honestly not interested in the finished product. Self-educating is what I'm all about and have no problems spending endless hours digging through literature and forums. Its why I paid for the education I got and still learn something every day.
I know a fair bit about tuning but am vastly behind the curve in tuning my own system. Which is what draws me to it.

Saving money doesn't hurt either, sounds like I need to get reading

Well then, you'll find that you can buy the right kit that will allow you to sequentially fire the injectors w/ a MS kit. MSII/PCB 3.57 will I think...It wasn't a priority for me, I don't plan to build a 2000 hp combination that may/may not benefit from the fuel pulse feeding the right cylinder at the right time at 7000 rpm, when another pulse has to occur in like in one bazillionth of a second right after.

This whole plan finds Me (being a staunch old school carb guy) walking a completely different path from the one I normally take anyway. And I'll admit,..I have no problem doing the research, then spending hours w/ a soldering gun while looking through those goofy assed mega magnifier glasses. The tuning is what scares the crap outta me as I have never done it.

But then I'd never built a 68/89 hybrid fox before either,........so maybe it wont be so bad .

tannerc91gt · Dec 28, 2012

madmike1157 said:
Well then, you'll find that you can buy the right kit that will allow you to sequentially fire the injectors w/ a MS kit. MSII/PCB 3.57 will I think...It wasn't a priority for me, I don't plan to build a 2000 hp combination that may/may not benefit from the fuel pulse feeding the right cylinder at the right time at 7000 rpm, when another pulse has to occur in like in one bazillionth of a second right after.

This whole plan finds Me (being a staunch old school carb guy) walking a completely different path from the one I normally take anyway. And I'll admit,..I have no problem doing the research, then spending hours w/ a soldering gun while looking through those goofy assed mega magnifier glasses. The tuning is what scares the crap outta me as I have never done it.

But then I'd never built a 68/89 hybrid fox before either,........so maybe it wont be so bad .

Oh don't get me wrong, I wouldn't need sequential either. This was a carbed car, so I'm already missing an Ecu and harness and all that. Just think it'd be the same amount of work to track down parts and wire it back up the stock way. And id rather have the tunability of a standalone and the learning experience. Really only looking to control fuel and ignition. And whatever accessories id be able to control with megasquirt like fans and my electric WP etc

tannerc91gt · Jan 5, 2013

MSPNP, this is exactly what I am after.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtpnp-g2-eec4a8-for-8693-ford-mustang-50-p-524.html

Just need to see if its capable of datalogging or if that requires the tuning software upgrade for VEanalyzer.
Either way its something for guys to check out, either for more tuning control or as a 2-for-1 for someone like me converting from carb and wanting the tunability.

Digital Tuning Megasquirt help

tannerc91gt

This last 25% is foreign territory at this point

84Ttop

They make new pistons every day, so why worry?

tannerc91gt

This last 25% is foreign territory at this point

90lxcoupe

tannerc91gt

This last 25% is foreign territory at this point

90lxcoupe

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

tannerc91gt

This last 25% is foreign territory at this point

tannerc91gt

This last 25% is foreign territory at this point

hoopty5.0

mechanicus terribilis

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

tannerc91gt

This last 25% is foreign territory at this point

tannerc91gt

This last 25% is foreign territory at this point

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