more supercharger (twin screw) questions

[DrSmith]

Sorry to ask more, seems we should have a sticky on all sc questions. I am now concentrating on the kd mammoth kit for my 06 gt. I will have the cash to up grade the bottom end, but would like a super charger now. The kb claims 775hp on a stock engine, what is with that??
Why does edelbrock proudly proclaim made in America? How far can that kit go? How far can I go with a ford racing whipple kit? Do any of you guys auto cross with twin screw super charger?
I feel like the old days waiting to buy a stereo, when the cd player was on the horizon...everyone was afraid to buy because something better was coming our.
Many thanks,
Doc

 

[Preston951]

Sorry to ask more, seems we should have a sticky on all sc questions. I am now concentrating on the kd mammoth kit for my 06 gt. I will have the cash to up grade the bottom end, but would like a super charger now. The kb claims 775hp on a stock engine, what is with that??

Well... KB exaggerates a little. Yes, you could make 775hp on the stock bottom end. That engine probably only lasted that one dyno... That engine was probably destroyed by the end of the test. That's WAY too much for the stock internals.

Why does edelbrock proudly proclaim made in America? How far can that kit go?

Who know... Another one of those "keep the money in America" deals I think. That kit looks pretty solid... I'm sure you can make 700+ in the long run.

How far can I go with a ford racing whipple kit?

5 words: Do not go Ford Racing. It's not a bad kit... But WAY to expensive. You could go twin turbos for the price they charge for their 500hp kit!

Do any of you guys auto cross with twin screw super charger?

That's a good idea! Low end torque would help you out for sure from braking and accelerating all the time.

I feel like the old days waiting to buy a stereo, when the cd player was on the horizon...everyone was afraid to buy because something better was coming our.
Many thanks,
Doc

LOL! I know what you mean! I'd highly recommend you look at all your options before pulling the trigger on such a HUGE investment.

First off, twin-screws (IMO) are the most FUN way to go when going with a SUPERCHARGER. Gobs and gobs of low end power make spinning the tires at 50mph a blast!

But... Turbochargers are another not-so-mainstream way to go. First off... Most turbochargers have the capability to exceed the Mammoth! They also make a load more power on lower PSI. But... They start making boost once the exhaust is flowing. You'll hit full boost from 3-3500rpms... A little trade off between that and the twin screw.

At 8 psi, you'll make 450+ rwhp...
You'll get better mpg, because you're reusing exhaust (more efficient system)...
You'll be able to turn up the boost at the spin of a dial...
05-09 Mustang Single Turbo
Those are possibly the best results and prices I've seen with a turbo. For the record, the smaller the turbo size, the sooner the boost!

Here's some excellent information about turbochargers below... A conversation I had with the people from the website above.

Question 1: Why shouldn't I buy the 76mm kit? It has a higher possible output, but this car will be a daily driver. It will be on a stock engine, at least for a while, so boost levels must remain low (8 psi or less).

Answer 1: It is true that the 76mm offers more total power potential - up to about 800-850 hp. The only reason not to purchase the 76mm system is that you are not going to be able to use the full power potential of that turbo on your stock engine. However, if you are going to build an engine, it might make sense to go for the 76mm, as it will be cheaper than buying a new turbo later in order to upgrade. The downside is that the 76mm turbo will not spool up as quickly as the 60mm turbo (4,000 rpm vs 3,000 rpm), unless you do the 76mm Ball Bearing option.

Question 2, 3, 4: What kind of numbers does the 60mm stage I kit put out? What's the lowest boost you have tested & its output (i.e. 6 psi - 450 HP)? What is the highest boost you have tested & its output?

Answers 2, 3, 4: The 60mm turbo is capable of about 600 rwhp, but you can't do that on your stock engine. You should reach 450 rwhp, which is about the limit we suggest, at about 6-7 psi.

Question 5: What about the 76mm kit?

Answer 5: See answer 1 above.

Question 6: I have an automatic. I don't expect there would be any issue with that?

Answer 6: Shouldn't be. The system actually works better with an automatic. You should, however, change your torque converter (I can sell you one for $599).

Question 7, 8: When does all this power kick in? What RPMs?

Answer 7, 8: You should be at full boost (on a stock engine) at about 3,000 rpm.

 

[DrSmith]

wow, thanks for your reply and information. I am going twin screw as I want the grunt off the line, as this is my daily driver (at least while the snow is away). You don't like the ford racing? It was that or kb. I am going to have to look for a place here in maine, or an easy drive into mass or nh. I am really getting confused with all of the options, especially since I know I will eventually upgrade the engine.
many thanks,
Doc

 

[SpartaPerformance]

If you want to just bolt on a blower then the FRPP whipple is great, the reason why it's so expensive is because it will last forever it solid and reliable. If you're looking to do massive upgrades later then I'ld go with the Roush TVS kit very power full and very upgradable.

 

[Preston951]

wow, thanks for your reply and information. I am going twin screw as I want the grunt off the line, as this is my daily driver (at least while the snow is away). You don't like the ford racing? It was that or kb. I am going to have to look for a place here in maine, or an easy drive into mass or nh. I am really getting confused with all of the options, especially since I know I will eventually upgrade the engine.
many thanks,
Doc

Careful how you take info from a Ford Part dealer!
(Just kidding around tommy! )

The Ford is overpriced in my honest opinion. $7000 for a kit that makes 550hp (like 510 to the wheels) is unbelievably high ~ That's roughly $30 per HP.

If you are 100% sure on a twin screw, look into these:

Kenne Bell ~ 2.6L Big Bore; STAGE 1; - 9 psi – 514 HP - 19.5 psi – 620 HP; $5800

Roush ~ R2300 Kit; capable of 700 HP; $5900

Edelbrock; E-Force; 5 psi – 466 HP; $5800

I'm not sure what your budget it, or what your plans for HP are. How much HP are you looking for?

 

[DrSmith]

My budget will grow as the years go buy, I am planning on this car for years to come. I want to go as far as I can with the car, and know that will mean a better bottom end, etc. This is why I don't want to waste 6k on the wrong system. It seems that kb is the way to go. Why else would the gt500 guys swap out a whipple to it? The mammoth kit looks pretty cool, especially when I beef up the rest of the engine. My car will sit for the maine winters, that mean time for me to have upgrades done. My wife is sick of me sitting on the fence, and just wants me to get the thing done. She is so sick of me taking so long to get a truck, she is trying to buy one for me. I guess a man could have worse troubles, it is nice to be so blessed.
So, is the kb mammoth kit the way to go? I like most of their set up. I mostly wanted to go with a ford kit as I will have local support. Maine does not leave me with many options. I could always drive to RI and have tasca work on my car, but I'd rather the money stayed in Maine.
Thanks guys,
Doc

 

[o0Dan0o]

5 words: Do not go Ford Racing. It's not a bad kit... But WAY to expensive. You could go twin turbos for the price they charge for their 500hp kit! [/SIZE]

I have to disagree with this. The whipple kit is the most expensive, but it's also the most complete. The whipple kit comes with the largest heat exchangers of all the kits you listed, fuel injectors and spark plugs (neither the KB kit nor the roush kit come with spark plugs), the largest MAF, the only kit to come with the GT500 fuel pumps (The KB kit comes with Boost-A-Pump, no other kit comes with a pump upgrade), and comes with a tune (neither the KB nor the Roush kits comes with tunes). You pay a bout a grand more, but I feel you get a grand more worth of stuff. The kit is designed to work with the stock GT engine, with modest boost for ~500 RWHP. With a forged bottom end and a smaller pully you can make over 700 rwhp on pump gas.

If you are 100% sure on a twin screw, look into these:

Kenne Bell ~ 2.6L Big Bore; STAGE 1; - 9 psi – 514 HP - 19.5 psi – 620 HP; $5800

Roush ~ R2300 Kit; capable of 700 HP; $5900

Edelbrock; E-Force; 5 psi – 466 HP; $5800

All very good kits, but the E-force and roush use the TVS screws which are hybrid roots style, not twin screw...
Dan

 

[Steel Horse]

I have to disagree with this. The whipple kit is the most expensive, but it's also the most complete. The whipple kit comes with the largest heat exchangers of all the kits you listed, fuel injectors and spark plugs (neither the KB kit nor the roush kit come with spark plugs), the largest MAF, the only kit to come with the GT500 fuel pumps (The KB kit comes with Boost-A-Pump, no other kit comes with a pump upgrade), and comes with a tune (neither the KB nor the Roush kits comes with tunes). You pay a bout a grand more, but I feel you get a grand more worth of stuff. The kit is designed to work with the stock GT engine, with modest boost for ~500 RWHP. With a forged bottom end and a smaller pully you can make over 700 rwhp on pump gas.



All very good kits, but the E-force and roush use the TVS screws which are hybrid roots style, not twin screw...
Dan

The KB kits do come with tunes unless you order a tuner kit which does not come with a tune. The whipple come with a larger heat exchanger but also keeps the intake in the front corner of the engine bay where it can still pick up some of the hot air under the hood. The KB intake is located very low right behind the front bumper and shouldn't pick up as much if any hot air.

 

[SpartaPerformance]

Preston I agree about pricing if you're looking to get a kit as a stepping stone to more boost later on. If you're just looking for a bolt on kit and thats it then that's the best one, it's expensive becuase its durable....unlike the chain crunching noise that come from Saleen blowers crappy build. OOOps did i say that?

 

[o0Dan0o]

The KB kits do come with tunes unless you order a tuner kit which does not come with a tune. The whipple come with a larger heat exchanger but also keeps the intake in the front corner of the engine bay where it can still pick up some of the hot air under the hood. The KB intake is located very low right behind the front bumper and shouldn't pick up as much if any hot air.

That's correct, my bad. I mis-read where it says "Optional Dual Calibration "POWER" & "SHOOTOUT" $99.00" in the price list.

Not saying which is better, the KB or the whipple, the top two twin screw kits available. The 2.8L mammoth will give you higher ultimate power limits, but you're talking pretty absurd power levels (most likely track-only trailer queens). And then there's the 3.0L Techco... Of course that's also $7,500.

My point was simply that the whipple is more expensive because it's a more complete kit.
Dan

 

[Preston951]

My budget will grow as the years go buy, I am planning on this car for years to come. I want to go as far as I can with the car, and know that will mean a better bottom end, etc. This is why I don't want to waste 6k on the wrong system. It seems that kb is the way to go. Why else would the gt500 guys swap out a whipple to it? The mammoth kit looks pretty cool, especially when I beef up the rest of the engine. My car will sit for the maine winters, that mean time for me to have upgrades done. My wife is sick of me sitting on the fence, and just wants me to get the thing done. She is so sick of me taking so long to get a truck, she is trying to buy one for me. I guess a man could have worse troubles, it is nice to be so blessed.
So, is the kb mammoth kit the way to go? I like most of their set up. I mostly wanted to go with a ford kit as I will have local support. Maine does not leave me with many options. I could always drive to RI and have tasca work on my car, but I'd rather the money stayed in Maine.
Thanks guys,
Doc

Here we go...
The Mammoth kit IS the best twin-screw supercharger in my honest opinion. However, it's gonna run you a lot of money... $6300 if you install it yourself and everything goes to plan.
Now.
For $6300, you have probably literally 100s of possibilities. From cheaper centrifugals with forged internals and high boost to just the KB Mammoth... Well, you have a tough choice to make!

I honestly think that if you have plans for HIGH horsepower with big "off the line pickup", you really should consider a twin turbo setup. I know you said you'd like "grunt off the line" and a twin turbo spools up so fast it will literally pick up maybe a tiny bit after the Mammoth. If 1 67mm turbo makes full boost at 3000rpms, 2 50mm turbos will make full boost around... 1100rpms (using math hah).

I'm not trying to avert you from your twin screw choice, I just want you to realize you have a ton of options ~ Look them all over before making such a big purchase! You don't want to regret $6300...

05-09 Mustang Twin Turbo

I have to disagree with this. The whipple kit is the most expensive, but it's also the most complete. The whipple kit comes with the largest heat exchangers of all the kits you listed, fuel injectors and spark plugs (neither the KB kit nor the roush kit come with spark plugs), the largest MAF, the only kit to come with the GT500 fuel pumps (The KB kit comes with Boost-A-Pump, no other kit comes with a pump upgrade), and comes with a tune (neither the KB nor the Roush kits comes with tunes). You pay a bout a grand more, but I feel you get a grand more worth of stuff. The kit is designed to work with the stock GT engine, with modest boost for ~500 RWHP. With a forged bottom end and a smaller pully you can make over 700 rwhp on pump gas.



All very good kits, but the E-force and roush use the TVS screws which are hybrid roots style, not twin screw...
Dan

Oh no, don't get me wrong! I agree, the FRPP Whipple kit IS the most complete! BUT in my opinion, I'd rather put my money into a less expensive kit and forge the internals, as opposed to buying a super complete kit and still having the stock internals.

Doh! You're right about the roots. They do have a similar function however.

 

[HEAVYGT]

I went with the KB and am glad I did...

 

[Gearbanger 101]

I like the FRPP/Whipple kits personally. Physically, all of the Twin Screw/TVS kits are capable of 600+HP and are all rock solid. Money aside, for me it comes down to fit and finish and visual appeal when you pop the hood.

I like the very factory look of the FRPP/Whipple and Roush kits.

HEAVYGT....you can certainly tell that there was a lot of TLC put into the under hood area of your car. Personally....its just far too much "pop" for my taste, but I've always liked a more suble, factory like appearance. In any case, I'm sure its a blast to drive.

 

[HEAVYGT]

HEAVYGT....you can certainly tell that there was a lot of TLC put into the under hood area of your car. Personally....its just far too much "pop" for my taste, but I've always liked a more suble, factory like appearance. In any case, I'm sure its a blast to drive.

Thanks Brian...and your right, she is a blast to drive, especially launching hard from a red light!

 

[stangzilla100]

the TVS, whipple, Eforce all capable of 600+rwhp.
the whipple is the most complete kit, comes with the GT500 FP, and is a proven SC kit.
the 2.8 KB will get you the most hp bc it is the biggest.
the Eforce is not 5 psi, it peaks at 9.5.
my whipple hit 8 psi off the line and stays there.
IMO whipple and KB are the top 2

 

[klaw]

I'm 715 HP at the crank (91 octane at only 16* of timing, 16 psi boost) with the Whipple HO on a forged stroker build. I upgraded the blower drive to the Steeda 10-rib which added a bit of cost but did all the work myself to save some money. The Whipple HO is a very good kit and I love the old-school look. KB or TVS would be my next choice. I don't like the shrouded look of the Saleen or E-Force and the name-whoring on the E-force is downright laughable.

 

[Preston951]

the name-whoring on the E-force is downright laughable.

Oh God dude, I couldn't agree more! If they made one that looked more like the Whipple or KB, I think it'd look a whole lot better.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Speaking of Whipple....do they not offer the 3.4L compressor as an upgrade for the S197? I know its an option for the GT500 and '03-'04 Cobra? I would think if most potential is what one were looking for, then you'd forgo the Kenne Bell 2.8L Mammoth and shoot strait for the Big Dog?

 

[stangzilla100]

Speaking of Whipple....do they not offer the 3.4L compressor as an upgrade for the S197? I know its an option for the GT500 and '03-'04 Cobra? I would think if most potential is what one were looking for, then you'd forgo the Kenne Bell 2.8L Mammoth and shoot strait for the Big Dog?

you would need a custom intake manifold. ST motorsports is the only place that has it. i think the 3.4L whipple would work better on a stroker setup than the stock 4.6 displacement.

 

[o0Dan0o]

Speaking of Whipple....do they not offer the 3.4L compressor as an upgrade for the S197? I know its an option for the GT500 and '03-'04 Cobra? I would think if most potential is what one were looking for, then you'd forgo the Kenne Bell 2.8L Mammoth and shoot strait for the Big Dog?

People are pushing huge numbers (Klaw's numbers above) and running as high as 9's on the whipple 2.3L. I think the 3.4L whipple has a pretty small market because of this, you're getting to an extreme amount of power at that point.
Dan