Motors mods to increase low end torque

Michael Yount · Aug 26, 2005

I think txstang said it all best.

I'd add - in addition to the KB (positive displacment) helping low end torque to big-b-like numbers, a properly sized turbo install can also produce incredible low end numbers. Not only do you get low end - you can arrange a torque curve that's flat as Kansas - at least up into the 4500 -5000 rpm range. But if you're gonna have great torque off idle and down really low (1500-2000), you probably won't have it still pulling increasing HP up at 6000 rpm too.

Cajun93 · Aug 26, 2005

QDRHRSE said:
I, myself, started with classic cars and I understand the desire to have a mustang with the same type of low end grunt as an old school big block but there is something that you need to consider. A 5.0 is among the hardest leaving cars there is. Not many cars launch like a mustang on slicks. A stock mustang with nothing but slicks and 4.10's will leave pretty much any mopar with a reasonable 383 or 440 in the dust for the first 60ft. Isn't that enough? How much more low end do you need? A Mustang is a sports car not a dump truck.

And this is coming from a guy with a 400 horse blown Mustang.
"Isn't that enough?" If that were true, this forum wouldn't exist.

More.....more...........more......

My stock stang with 4.10's and slicks would not hang with my older big Mopar boat (especially up to 60ft). 1969 Dodge Dart with a .383. Less than 400bux on the stock motor.

willys1 · Aug 26, 2005

1EVIL88VERT said:
for that much cash you can get a new set of ford y303 aluminum heads that will flow just as good and cut 50 pounds of the nose.

Besides the wieght factor Iron heads are "better" then aluminum for HP!

Michael Yount · Aug 26, 2005

"Besides the wieght factor Iron heads are "better" then aluminum for HP!"

Old myth. Any thermal efficiency the iron has over the aluminum head is offset by the ability of the aluminum head to resist detonation at higher compressions and with more timing. The weight advantage still exists. If cast iron heads were 'da bomb', why then in almost any form of racing you can name do people run aluminum heads unless rules (or their budgets) prohibit it? In fact, it's getting hard to even find cast iron BLOCKS in new engines.

Cajun93 · Aug 26, 2005

willys1 said:
Besides the wieght factor Iron heads are "better" then aluminum for HP!

ummm.....is this true?

So far it seems most people are pointing me in the direction of the GT40 stuff.

What if I send a lower GT40 intake and my current heads to Extrude.
Then add the KB. Would this get me close? He quoted me a decent deal to port these three items.

What else would I need to do to the heads after porting? What's a 5 or 3 angle valve job? Required?

BTW - thanks again for the replies guys
Have a good weekend

1EVIL88VERT · Aug 26, 2005

the cost in porting stock heads is simply not worth it, a set of aluminum ford y303 heads can be had for only 600.00 through some places and will flow just as well as ported stockers and will work better than cast iron ones with your blower....you can run more timing or boost than you can with iron heads and not risk detonation

Michael Yount · Aug 26, 2005

You don't want Extrudehone - it doesn't remove enough material from the places it needs to be removed and usually removes too much from places that don't need any removed. Proper porting of the heads and manifolds is best done by hand by someone that knows what they're doing with those products. Send a pm to 'tmoss' on the site - he does a great job porting the GT40 lowers.

As for alum vs. cast iron - see my post. If you're running boost aluminum is especially a much better choice for heads as it gives you more flexibility for heat control. Especially with the positive displacement units for 5.0's which usually require quite a bit of fabrication if you want to try and intercool them.

Work with one of the custom cam gurus on the sites - Ed Curtis, Buddy Rawls, Jay Allen, Greg at XSR -- they'll help you select matching components and do a cam that's designed to work with boost to produce torque/power where you want it in the curve. And their models are sophisticated enough to let you know what the limitations of your choices are. A set of AFR165 heads with a good intake/exhaust set up, a Blowzilla from KB and cam to tie it all together should satisfy your needs for big-block type bottom.

If that don't work - hell - drop a Mopar big block in it.

willys1 · Aug 26, 2005

Michael Yount said:
You don't want Extrudehone - it doesn't remove enough material from the places it needs to be removed and usually removes too much from places that don't need any removed. Proper porting of the heads and manifolds is best done by hand by someone that knows what they're doing with those products. Send a pm to 'tmoss' on the site - he does a great job porting the GT40 lowers.

As for alum vs. cast iron - see my post. If you're running boost aluminum is especially a much better choice for heads as it gives you more flexibility for heat control. Especially with the positive displacement units for 5.0's which usually require quite a bit of fabrication if you want to try and intercool them.

Work with one of the custom cam gurus on the sites - Ed Curtis, Buddy Rawls, Jay Allen, Greg at XSR -- they'll help you select matching components and do a cam that's designed to work with boost to produce torque/power where you want it in the curve. And their models are sophisticated enough to let you know what the limitations of your choices are. A set of AFR165 heads with a good intake/exhaust set up, a Blowzilla from KB and cam to tie it all together should satisfy your needs for big-block type bottom.

If that don't work - hell - drop a Mopar big block in it.

Actually the new 425hp Hemi has the same #'s as the 426 cubic inch did in the late 60's early 70's..R&T or C&D did a 60's style dyno test on the new Behemith!! Meaning they tested the motor with "no" accesseries,P.s.,ac,smog pump,ect.,,,, It made 467HP,,identical the its predicesor,but alot lighter,alot more efficient,and probably 3 times the gas mileage!!,,,but,they didnt list the torque #'s,,Im sure the extra 70 something cubes the old one had would prevail..

Michael Yount · Aug 26, 2005

willys - you better call Chrylser and tell them now much better that new hemi would be with cast iron heads instead!

willys1 · Aug 26, 2005

Michael Yount said:
willys - you better call Chrylser and tell them now much better that new hemi would be with cast iron heads instead!

Easy Miky,,lets not get crazy!

04sleeper · Aug 26, 2005

willys1 said:
Easy Miky,,lets not get crazy!

It's OK Billy.

I am with Mike on this one.

willys1 · Aug 26, 2005

89sleeper said:
It's OK Billy.

I am with Mike on this one.

Hey there "are" some better aspects for Iron over aluminum!! (n/a motors)

04sleeper · Aug 26, 2005

willys1 said:
Hey there "are" some better aspects for Iron over aluminum!! (n/a motors)

Give us some.

:OT: Did you get that fuel pressure gauge mounted yet?

willys1 · Aug 26, 2005

89sleeper said:
Give us some.

:OT: Did you get that fuel pressure gauge mounted yet?

#1-Heat disapation in the combustion chamber!

nah,I gotta retorque my intake first,hopefully Sunday!!

willys1 · Aug 26, 2005

For low end torque I'd say the 455 stage 1 Buick has more then Mopar!!

willys1 · Aug 26, 2005

But for a 5.0 Im going with a stock cam,T-Moss/Thumper/KB combo!!

04sleeper · Aug 26, 2005

willys1 said:
#1-Heat disapation in the combustion chamber!

nah,I gotta retorque my intake first,hopefully Sunday!!

I said some, not 1...lol.. just playin'.

Sounds good. Let me know how it goes.

willys1 · Aug 26, 2005

89sleeper said:
I said some, not 1...lol.. just playin'.

Sounds good. Let me know how it goes.

Well,when it comes to boost I never heard of spark plugs shooting out of the motors like bullets!! on cast Iron heads!!-#2

I saw chip Foose

1EVIL88VERT · Aug 26, 2005

i've never seen a spark plug shoot out of some trick flow or AFR heads...

Michael Yount · Aug 26, 2005

I'm not the 'crazy' one -- I believe it was you who said "Besides the wieght factor Iron heads are "better" then aluminum for HP!" Don't kid yourself....

Motors mods to increase low end torque

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