N/A vs Blown

02LaserRed2V · Feb 15, 2006

the98stang said:
I think it's funny you say that 11 sec blown cars are "much more streetable" than a 11 sec N/A car, when you state no proof. I don't think there is a 11 sec 4.6 N/A on these boards anyway...

Of course Honda's are more reliable, they have four cylinder engines. Which means there is less shi1t to deal with.

Please explain your definition of "more streetable"

Okay, you got me. There's no such thing as an 11 sec N/A car, since no one on these boards have one.

The Honda remark was sarcasm, but that apparently flew over your head as well. I could go on into detail on either setup but posters such as Gearbanger and the one above me aleady done so. It doesn't matter anyways, you're not willing to listen nor admit you're wrong.

Just give it up already. It's blatantly obvious you've never driven a blown, nor 11-12 sec N/A stang. The more you post on this topic, the more credibility (if you have any left) you're losing.

01Steeda · Feb 15, 2006

I should be well in the 12's with my car, and it is pretty streetable. Head/Cams and higher Comp. I dont kow yet lol.. but we will see.

Gearbanger 101 · Feb 15, 2006

the98stang said:
2. Boost causes the pistons to move faster in the cylinders. The more the pistons rotate, the more wear on the cylinder. Just like rubbing two bricks of metal together (of course that is just a general example).

Again, I'm just not seeing your reasoning on this one. RPM, is RPM! It doesn't matter what type of engine configuration is producing it. A 4.6L Modular rotating assembly with a built N/A engine seeing 3,000RPM isn't turning any slower or faster than an engine with a power adder seeing 3,000RPM. A blower engine like I said may cause an engine to see it's RPM limit faster than stock (which should be pretty obvious because of the added horsepower gain accompanied by the added cylinder pressure), but then again, so will a radically built N/A engine. Making power to any extent is done in the same way no matter what type of engine it is, only the methods in which this power is produced differs.

Either way, having a power adder isn't going to cause your engine to suddenly double the speed of the rotating assembly. Yes an unnaturally aspirated engine is going to see increased cylinder pressure over a N/A set up, but as I stated earlier as long as that cylinder pressure is kept within manageable parameters, it's not going to bring about any situation that can't be controlled with timing and fuel modifications programmed into the tune. Power adder cars can and have been made every bit as reliable as N/A cars and there are many factory blower and turbo cars that can attest to this. And in the same instance and radically built N/A engine can and have experienced engine wear and/or failure just as frequently as an over the top engine motivated by a power adder…..or do you think a 700hp NASCAR engine would be suitable and reliable for daily driving?

Outlaw97GT · Feb 15, 2006

Not to change this thread, or but-in ya'lls argument...

But Honda's are not reliable, my wife had an Accord and it was this biggest POS we've ever owned...........Honda's suck!

Ok carry on with ya'lls argument

the98stang · Feb 15, 2006

02LaserRed2V said:
Okay, you got me. There's no such thing as an 11 sec N/A car, since no one on these boards have one.

The Honda remark was sarcasm, but that apparently flew over your head as well. I could go on into detail on either setup but posters such as Gearbanger and the one above me aleady done so. It doesn't matter anyways, you're not willing to listen nor admit you're wrong.

Just give it up already. It's blatantly obvious you've never driven a blown, nor 11-12 sec N/A stang. The more you post on this topic, the more credibility (if you have any left) you're losing.

The fact that I've never driven in a 11 sec car isn't realavant. I have been listening all along, and how am I "wrong" if everything I state is my OPINION? F%%k....it seems like every one has a stick in their azz. If you like S/C's, good for you. I'm just stating why I think N/A engines are more realiable.

Gearbanger 101 · Feb 15, 2006

the98stang said:
how am I "wrong" if everything I state is my OPINION?

I think for the most part, the reason that some posters are getting bent out of shape on this, is that you're trying to pass off your opinion as cold hard fact, when it's obvious that some of your points are flawed. What puts the icing on the cake is when you completely disregard others statements over your own, when admitidly all you've got to back your own answers are opinions.

I could personally care less either way. I know for a fact that running a blower, turbo or nitrous system within reasonable parameters on a stock engine isn’t going to shorten engine life dramatically and certainly to no greater extent than any bolt on 4.6L capable of running within the same power ranges. Whether yourself or other N/A diehards see it that way or not, doesn’t really hurt my feelings any.

reddrgn01gt · Feb 15, 2006

03GTconv · Feb 15, 2006

New Guy on the Block

2003 Mustang GT Prem
Charcoal Grey
246.5 RWHP 289.3 RWTQ
MAC CAI
bbk 75mm TB
C&L Plenum w/spacer
C&L 85mm Maf
SLP Loudmouth C/B
Diablo Predator
Eibach Sport Springs

Just added and Not Dynoed
BBK Ceramic LongTubes
BBk O/R H-Pipe

the98stang · Feb 15, 2006

Gearbanger 101 said:
I know for a fact that running a blower, turbo or nitrous system within reasonable parameters on a stock engine isn’t going to shorten engine life dramatically....

dramatically being the key word, you just admitted yourself that those power adders hurt a stock engine over time. Sounds like your a hypocrite...

power adders make a bigger explosion (combustion) and add more boost to the cylinders, therefore put more stress on the engine.

The bottom line is, these engines weren't built for boost. Even small amounts of boost are going to affect the engine somehow. So many users abuse the use of their power adders, and blow their engines to hell. Why take that gamble? Maybe you have sh1t loads of money/time. Those two things I do not have. My standing stays the same.

reddrgn01gt · Feb 16, 2006

the98stang said:
dramatically The bottom line is, these engines weren't built for boost. Even small amounts of boost are going to affect the engine somehow. So many users abuse the use of their power adders, and blow their engines to hell. Why take that gamble? Maybe you have sh1t loads of money/time. Those two things I do not have. My standing stays the same.

These engines respond to boost quite well actually. What about the Saleen and Roush cars using the same internals? Look around at all of the blown cars on this website. How many threads are started about superchargers blowing engines do you see? It is like i said before it is all in the tune. You say so many users abuse the use of power adders. Ok, this may be true but who says you have to be one of them. There are plenty of people running boost within safe limits.

I am NA now and if i had the money to dump into the stang to properly set it up with a blower i would. It sounds like you may be a little jealous of the blower cars because you also don't have the funds to get one.

What all this has really done is piqued my interest in your plans for your NA buildup. Care to enlighten us?

Gearbanger 101 · Feb 16, 2006

the98stang said:
dramatically being the key word, you just admitted yourself that those power adders hurt a stock engine over time. Sounds like your a hypocrite...

power adders make a bigger explosion (combustion) and add more boost to the cylinders, therefore put more stress on the engine.

The bottom line is, these engines weren't built for boost. Even small amounts of boost are going to affect the engine somehow.

Don't put words into my mouth! I admitted nothing of the sort and no I'm not a hypocrite. When I stated that a power adder wasn't going to going to shorten engine life dramatically, I also made reference to comparably built N/A combinations as well.

Any time you modify an engine beyond it's stock parameters for the purposes of measurably increasing horsepower, you increase the risk of shortening an engines life span. Sure, maybe a N/A engine making 30-40rwhp over it's stock configuration with simple bolt-on's may not affect engine reliability in the slightest...as a matter of fact, it may even heighten an engines efficiency if done within reasonable parameters, but then again even the most simple power adders are good for a total 325-350rwhp, so to compare a bolt on N/A 4.6 making 265-270rwhp and even the most basic blown engine seeing 330-350+ isn't exactly a fair comparison, is it? So feel free to build a N/A engine to similar power levels....then what are you left with? You're fooling yourself if you don't think that pushing a N/A 4.6L to these output parameters isn't stressing it's mechanical components to any lesser extent than that of a basic power adder...even more so at the high end of the horsepower spectrum.

Is it going to burn your engine down in the first year? If built and tuned right, absolutely not! There's no reason that the owner of either combination can't enjoy thousands of trouble free miles with proper maintenance. Will the engine last as long as a bone stock 4.6L.....not likely, but the means to that end is going to be related directly in retrospect to an owners driving style and how they're treating the new found power under their right foot. Will a 450rwhp+ blower car with stock internal components last as long as a 300rwhp N/A combination? No definitive proof either way, but the answer is not likely. But in the same respect, I'd put more faith into a 350-400rwhp F/I engine than a N/A unit with the same output level running stock internal components. Had we 4.6L modular owners been given more displacement to work with from the factory, higher horsepower figures would have come with much less effort and without the need to "ride the reliability line" so to speak. But we've got to work with what we were given.

I'll clue you into another fact that you may or may not be aware of. Excessive cylinder pressure isn't the only killer of an engine! Excessive RPM is going to do more damage over the long run that a little bit of boost. Staying with the numbers, your average F/I car is seeing anywhere from 350-400rwhp. Excessive RPM isn't necessary with this set up, since the horsepower being made, is done so within the same RPM limitations as it was stock. There just happens to be more of it between both ends of the power curve. This same reasoning unfortunately, doesn't hold true for a N/A engine making the same sort of power. In this case, without displacement, you need RPM. High horsepower N/A combinations don't make stump pulling torque at off idle or even moderate RPM, like a F/I engine does. The majority of that power, is all made at the top end of that tach, where unfortunately for the owner, reliability starts to take a back seat to power production.

….that’s just the way it is.

the98stang said:
So many users abuse the use of their power adders, and blow their engines to hell. Why take that gamble? Maybe you have sh1t loads of money/time. Those two things I do not have. My standing stays the same.

Just for kicks....run the cost figures in your head as to what it will take to make 330rwhp N/A in comparison to what it would cost to do it with a power adder. I'll give you a heads up, that between N/A, nitrous, or a blower, you're going to spend the most money doing it with all motor. If spending the least amount of money to make the most power is your goal, then my friend you're going about it the wrong way.

02LaserRed2V · Feb 16, 2006

the98stang said:
The fact that I've never driven in a 11 sec car isn't realavant. I have been listening all along, and how am I "wrong" if everything I state is my OPINION? F%%k....it seems like every one has a stick in their azz. If you like S/C's, good for you. I'm just stating why I think N/A engines are more realiable.

Something tells me if you had the $$$ for a blower, you'd get one in a heartbeat, then tell us all how wonderful life is. But since you don't have the funds at this time, you're trying to find reasons to be critical of FI setups to justify not having one. I see this happen all the time, whether it's a GT owner desperately trying to find a reason they wouldnt want to own an 03/04 Cobra or SN95 owners putting down the 05+ stangs.

If you want reliability, keep your stang bone stock. But what fun is that? Anytime you mod anything, N/A or blown, you risk breaking something. That is the nature.

the98stang · Feb 16, 2006

02LaserRed2V said:
Something tells me if you had the $$$ for a blower, you'd get one in a heartbeat, then tell us all how wonderful life is. But since you don't have the funds at this time, you're trying to find reasons to be critical of FI setups to justify not having one. I see this happen all the time, whether it's a GT owner desperately trying to find a reason they wouldnt want to own an 03/04 Cobra or SN95 owners putting down the 05+ stangs.

If you want reliability, keep your stang bone stock. But what fun is that? Anytime you mod anything, N/A or blown, you risk breaking something. That is the nature.

Do you think your some kind of fortune teller or something . Even if I had the money for a blower, I wouldn't get one. Sure, every time you mod a car (N/A, blown, whatever) the engine's life span is effected somewhat. BUT, N/A car with simple bolt on mods aren't going to be affect as much compared to a supercharged car. I'm not looking to build a f*%^ing NASCAR. And plus, I have more respect for N/A guys that can keep up with the boosted guys. WE don't take the easy way out

the98stang · Feb 16, 2006

Gearbanger 101 said:
Just for kicks....run the cost figures in your head as to what it will take to make 330rwhp N/A in comparison to what it would cost to do it with a power adder. I'll give you a heads up, that between N/A, nitrous, or a blower, you're going to spend the most money doing it with all motor. If spending the least amount of money to make the most power is your goal, then my friend you're going about it the wrong way.

I never said I wanted to spend minimal amounts of money to get the most power, now did I? Nor do I wish for 330 WHP. Sure the N/A guys are going to spend a sh1t load more money making their car faster, but at least they aren't taking the easy way out. I have more respect for naturally aspirated cars. And I know your going to leave some lame azz comment, but this is MY opinion.

So bite me

reddrgn01gt · Feb 16, 2006

the98stang said:
And plus, I have more respect for N/A guys that can keep up with the boosted guys. WE don't take the easy way out

I hate to break it to you but unless you do a hell of a lot of modding you aren't going to keep up. This includes suspension, weight reduction, heads, cams, and long tubes.

Gearbanger 101 · Feb 16, 2006

the98stang said:
BUT, N/A car with simple bolt on mods aren't going to be affect as much compared to a supercharged car. I'm not looking to build a f*%^ing NASCAR. And plus, I have more respect for N/A guys that can keep up with the boosted guys. WE don't take the easy way out

the98stang said:
I never said I wanted to spend minimal amounts of money to get the most power, now did I? Nor do I wish for 330 WHP. Sure the N/A guys are going to spend a sh1t load more money making their car faster, but at least they aren't taking the easy way out. I have more respect for naturally aspirated cars. And I know your going to leave some lame azz comment, but this is MY opinion.

So bite me

Me come back with a lame ass comment?!?! You've gone from making a some what sensible post, to contradicting yourself repeatedly and taking pot shots at people who've called you on it. Your arguments are a joke. Once one of your points is beaten down, you turn your reasoning around and hop onto a different topic, until that point too has been floored at which point you try to discredit it by sneaking back over to your original point and hope nobody notices.

You first state that how much more respect you've got for the guys that run with the blower cars because you consider a power adder "the easy way out". That’s fine and that’s where your argument should have ended…but nope, you had to follow it up with reliability, which is where everything just started going downhill for you, isn’t it? Exactly how much power do you think a N/A guy is going to have to make to run with the supercharged crowd? I used 330rwhp as an example because that seems to be the coveted mark for most of the N/A guys and coincidently it also seems to be about the amount of horsepower even your most basic of entry level blower kits makes. It's going to take at least 330rwhp for the N/A guy to even stand a chance against the blower car.

When you start quoting reliability, then back it up by comparing a hard spun supercharged engine to a N/A 4.6L one with only a "few small bolt-ons". Of course the car with the power adder is going to put measurably more stress on the internal components by comparison, it's making in the neighbourhood of another 100-150rwhp over your next to stock N/A 4.6L.

So which is it....are you comparing the power levels of a heavily modified N/A engine that will run with the basic blower crowd, or are you comparing the reliability of a basically stock GT with a couple of minor bolt-ons that won't sacrifice reliability? You can't have it both ways without the use of a power adder, my extremely mislead friend.....and your comments are increasingly moving from mislead, to ignorant, to down right wrong if you continue to claim so.

The nice thing about that power adder car, is that the additional power is only there when you put your foot into it. Otherwise, it drives, runs and gets the same gas mileage as a stock car. Too bad the same can't be said for the heavily modified N/A guys trying to take down the blower crowd, huh?

….funny how my “lame assed comments” seem to discredit your most serious attempts at reason, huh? Now….bite that!

01Steeda · Feb 16, 2006

Blowers put alot of pressure on the ringlands of a 4.6L that is a known fact. It is a moot point to argue that a blown car will have as long of a life as a N/A car. Thats just insane. Blown engines also put alot of stress on the bottom end of anm engine due to cylinder pressure being multiplied.

Those are the true arguments for N/A vs blown. Of course you will always make more power with a S/C'ed enigine. If you take the best and most powerful N/A engine out there and put a blower on it, it will make more power.

I choose N/A because the common thinking is you cant make a mustang fast without a blower. At least that is what it seems like around my town. I am out to disproove that. I think blown cars are cool as hell. I just want to go a different route.

the98stang · Feb 17, 2006

01Steeda said:
Blowers put alot of pressure on the ringlands of a 4.6L that is a known fact. It is a moot point to argue that a blown car will have as long of a life as a N/A car. Thats just insane. Blown engines also put alot of stress on the bottom end of anm engine due to cylinder pressure being multiplied.

Those are the true arguments for N/A vs blown. Of course you will always make more power with a S/C'ed enigine. If you take the best and most powerful N/A engine out there and put a blower on it, it will make more power.

I choose N/A because the common thinking is you cant make a mustang fast without a blower. At least that is what it seems like around my town. I am out to disproove that. I think blown cars are cool as hell. I just want to go a different route.

Thank you JESUS! That's what "dogbanger" over here won't understand. I never said I was trying to keep up with the blown cars. I just said I had more respect for the N/A stangs because we too can reach a decent amount of power with out slapping on a supercharger or other power adder. I choose not to jump on the bandwagon.

So go ahead, write another 3 page essay explaining why you think supercharged engines are indestructable (or so it seems like.) You'll have to modify a N/A engine up the ass to make it as unreliable as a blown motor.

02LaserRed2V · Feb 17, 2006

the98stang said:
Thank you JESUS! That's what "dogbanger" over here won't understand. I never said I was trying to keep up with the blown cars. I just said I had more respect for the N/A stangs because we too can reach a decent amount of power with out slapping on a supercharger or other power adder. I choose not to jump on the bandwagon.

So go ahead, write another 3 page essay explaining why you think supercharged engines are indestructable (or so it seems like.) You'll have to modify a N/A engine up the ass to make it as unreliable as a blown motor.

I believe you missed this part of the conversation:

Gearbanger 101 said:

When you start quoting reliability, then back it up by comparing a hard spun supercharged engine to a N/A 4.6L one with only a "few small bolt-ons". Of course the car with the power adder is going to put measurably more stress on the internal components by comparison, it's making in the neighbourhood of another 100-150rwhp over your next to stock N/A 4.6L.

Click to expand...

reddrgn01gt · Feb 17, 2006

02LaserRed2V said:
I believe you missed this part of the conversation:

That is exactly right you can't compare an NA car like mine that is going to have a mild cam and bolt ons to a sc'd monster.

N/A vs Blown

N/A or Blown

N/A - who needs a blower whne you got a hummer

Blown - the only way to ride

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