Dogbanger, huh?the98stang said:
You’re the one who made the comparison right off the bat between what would need to be a moderate to heavily modified N/A engine and an entry level blower car, not I….or are you still under the impression that the average 4.6 owner can just add a couple of Mickey Mouse bolt ons and run with a blower car? If you’re going to spread around the crap at least be man enough later on to stick around a clean it up!
I never once implied that blower cars were indestructible, so feel free to shelve the exaggerations any time. It’s a reality, just as 01Steeda stated, that increased cylinder pressure from a power adder will add a measurable amount of stress to the bottom end and more often than not, it’s one of the top ring lands that bites it. What I’m saying is, is that running a moderate amount of airflow, with conservative tuning parameters is still going to prove more than acceptable for these engines without worry of failure. I’d like to say that this is only a theory, but this statement has been proven many times over in the recent past. Thousands upon thousands of Power Adder cars running the streets, working within reasonable levels of power are living long and healthy lives and continue to turn more than impressive times and horsepower numbers as a result. How impressive? Impressive enough to run mid/low-12 and put down numbers in the mid-300rwhp that will effortlessly meet and usually beat even the most aggressively built N/A combination running those same weak stock internals. Weak stock internals that are just as likely to damage the bottom end with RPM in an aggressively modified N/A car as a Power Adder car is with cylinder pressure.
You want to talk about engine wear??? Lets talk about how a N/A engine that’s going to be built with enough power to run with a blower car (again….as stated in your original post) is going to sacrifice huge amounts of off idle and low-end torque in the process. How does one deal with the loss of torque….by adding gear and by running the engine at higher RPM levels to keep it closer to it’s power band. Sounds like a recipe for engine wear to me?
BTW….most power adder cars are capable of high-11/low-12 second times, not high-12’s. If you’re seeing many boosted or sprayed Mustang running high-12’s, its either because the owner needs a lot more practice harnessing the power and putting it to the ground, or is running the most basic of power adder kits. In which case, you're in for a rude awakening when you start spouting off your "opinions" to some guy that's actually put a few dollars into his ride or knows how to drive his car.
......and if it seems like I write miniature novels with each of my replies, it’s only because I feel as though it’s warranted to clear up all of the misconstrued information from your previous posts!
Definately NO need for that. If you can't take the heat get out of the conversation! Spirited debates are what this thread is about. Your showing your age/maturity. Don't get a good thread locked because you don't like someones opinion on the other side of the debate.the98stang said:
Gearbanger 101 said:
1. Proven on what enginges? I highly doubt 1000 people agreeing to this theory is enough. Considering the amount of 4.6L mustangs produced. What about all the domestic and import cars?
2. OK, I'll admit my statement was wrong. A N/A car running times simular to that of a supercharged stang will probably have the same amount of wear on the engine. But, personally, those are not my goals. And I feel even cams and bolt ons will not effect my engine life span greatly.
3. Or a noob that doesn't know what the hell he is doing, slaps on a supercharger, and blows the engine to hell. Then has daddy buy him another mustang... lol
It's no longer a theory, once it's been put into practice….which it now has, several thousand times over. We could bring other vehicles and engine configurations into this debate and get mixed opinions on both sides, but your original statement was that the Ford 4.6L couldn’t handle a power adder without experiencing reliability issues, period!.....and this is the remark I’m defending.the98stang said:
My argument was that if kept within reasonable limits, a 4.6L modular engine will take the use of an external power adder just fine. I'm sure that there are far more than 1000 4.6L owners running the streets....heck, on this board for that matter, that have lay waste to the claims of 4.6L's not being able to take a moderate levels of boost/spray/whatever just by following through with the modifications and continuing to exist.
You don't need to believe me, just ask the owners themselves or look at the results of their installations. I'll guarantee that 95% of the power adder (we'll say superchargers for the sake of this argument) owners will attest that if at all, any engine failure that was related directly to their use, was due exclusively to human error (whether it be mistakes during the install, an inconsistency in the tune or getting greedy with the power levels) alone and not the fault of running a power adder itself. The 4.6L engine isn’t the tough as nails street warrior that the old 302 OHV was, but it isn’t made of glass either. Ford built these engines to last as it can be attested by the thousands, upon thousands of ultra-high mileage Lincoln and Crown Victoria Civil Service and Taxi cabs running the streets today.
Blower, Turbo, Nitrous, N/A…whatever! If you keep limitations and power levels within reasonable and acceptable parameters, you’ll enjoy a trouble free, exceptionally powerful and reliable engine, for years and years to come. Get greedy and reckless and you might find yourself walking home.
No, you're probably right, as long as you keep in mind that the level of performance generated by the bolt ons you've got will be reflective of this as well. A set of cams and a couple of bolt ons probably isn't going to kill your engine, but it's also not going to turn your car into more than about a mid-13 to high-12 second daily driver either. A healthy runner without a doubt, but not overly impressive by Mustang standards unless you're willing to get agressive with your build.the98stang said:
Another good point, but the same can be said for this same noob that decided to install his own bolt on's and screwed something up as well.the98stang said:
Gearbanger 101 said:
man i feel the pain
you just made the list..... you don't want to be on "the list"?
the list of people that have really made me mad. i tell everyone. it is some kind of personality defect. i want everyone to have this much fun. that's all.
the light kind of went on. *bing* bing bing. when i saw the swap. it also went on when i got punked by a certain cobra. bolt on 2v vs. bolt on 4v is way bad for me. what... am i going on and on about it again.
I don't know what the hell you just said, but I <3 you bill.....
.....and your completely incoherent posts.
Don’t ever change
.....and your completely incoherent posts.
Don’t ever change
I haven't read all the posts but I will add the following opinion. If you were to build an NA combo that had as much power as something that had a common blower, like an S trim vortech, the NA motor would be so radical that it would not last as long as stock motor with 8lbs of boost. You would have to have a lot of compression and spin a lot of RPM, which is not conducive to long engine life. The great thing about a blower car is that you can drive it easy and not make boost all the time. If you build a high compression NA motor it is always working harder. I think that this was overlooked in other posts. This also doesn't include the beating the valve train of a strong NA motor would take. If your gonna make a lot of power NA you need a big cam right? This will include big lift, fast valve event's, long duration and a shorter LSA. This inturn makes a car less street friendly, less fun to drive, the engine will have less vacuum and will inherently have trouble with any vacuum operated accessories...etc, etc.
I've done it both ways and it's more fun and consistent with the blower. This whole "respect" thing is a bunch of garbage. If you want to go fast the blower is the best way to go. Trust me, when I pull up next to somebody at a light and they hear the blower whining I get all the respect I need. I do enjoy hearing a car with a built motor from time to time....the rumpety rump of a big cam is pleasant but it like my brothers kids- I love to see em' but I'm glad their not mine.
I've done it both ways and it's more fun and consistent with the blower. This whole "respect" thing is a bunch of garbage. If you want to go fast the blower is the best way to go. Trust me, when I pull up next to somebody at a light and they hear the blower whining I get all the respect I need. I do enjoy hearing a car with a built motor from time to time....the rumpety rump of a big cam is pleasant but it like my brothers kids- I love to see em' but I'm glad their not mine.
Gearbanger 101 said:
1. Yes you are right, my argument was for the 4.6L engine, so I can't bring other cars into the subject. Although I think my original attempt of the argument was to point out the overall aspect of power adders to all vehicles. So I loose here...
2. Yes I would agree most engines fail because of human error. Which is why I personally choose not to install a S/C on my stang or let any one else do it. I can't take the gamble. However, many other people feel comfortable with it. More power to them.
3. Once again, another good point. Any dumb as can mess up a car no matter what kind of mod it is.
droptopponynj said:
Yea I was getting really frusterated...had to vent with some idiotic comment
forgive me...