Need Tech. Help. URGENT!

[joshs69stang]

This is going to be a long post about tech info on the rebuild i'm doing to my 69 mustang, 302 rebuild. At this point i really need some info before i worry myself so much it slows down production. And i need this car on the road by a minimum of saturday the 14th.

Ok, I have a 302 motor i pulled from the car, i tore the thing down to the bare block and had it vatted, honed for new standard size rings, new rings installed, i forgot to check endgap but since i didn't bore to the next size and it was honed i am now thinking the endgap should be fine. I also bought some new standard size main and rod bearings and installed those.

All my new mods/parts installed are:
Edelbrock 14" air cleaner-sign. series
Edelbrock 600cfm Performer carb
Edelbrock Performer 4 bl intake manifold
Edelbrock Performer-Plus Camshaft
New Cast Rings
all new main/rod bearings- Clevite 77
Hedman $150 shorty headers
Dual 2" exhaust with 40 series delta flows

My problem is with the install of the rods to the crank and making it work right together. This is my first full engine project on a car motor and my dad and i pretty much know the basic essentials to do this properly. We have been using a Haynes "How to Rebuild Your Smallblock Ford" book.

Now that my main and rod bearings are installed with engine lube, and all the caps placed in the same sequence they came off on, and new rings installed, should the motor be very hard to turn from the front crank bolt now? if i leave all the bolts finger tight it spins pretty easy from that bolt infront of the harmonic balancer, but if i torque all the bolts to specs (19-24 ft./lb on the rodds) the motor is extremely hard to turn, like with a 1/2 in. breaker bar either me or my dad have to put almost every ounce of weight and strength into the breaker bar to spin the crank any. before I tore this motor down i was able to spin it from the fan on the shroud that cools the motor down, with everything hooked up. I have the spark plugs in at this point but I still think I should be able to turn this thing much easier than what it is allowing me, and i think endgap might not be an issue because the motor moves easy untill I torque all the bolts down.

What else is there i need to check for? I can fit a .04 feeler gauge inbetween all the rods on the crank. Is this something i have to worry about or will this motor loosen up as it's new parts break in and become more lubricated? I also put in an Edelbrock Performer-Plus Camshaft and hyd. lifter set. I have not changed anything on the heads, but there is new gaskets everywere throughout the motor, and i put a new front tranny seal in.

 

[stang_chick13]

Have you checked for clearance.....

Have you check for clearance on the pistons, because with the bigger cam, you may run into clearance problems. What is the specs on the cam?? Are your pistons flat top, dished, or do they have valve relief's?? If your cam is too big to have enough clearance you are either going to have to change pistons, have them fly cut if the have valve reliefs, or maybe change to a shorter pushrod. You may need to get a pushrod length tool to be accurate. Other than that, I can't think of any other problems that you would encounter unless your bearings are too thick or the wrong size. It may also be that the bearings are not lubed enough. I know for a fact that if your bearings are not lubed enough it will kill them and possibly the crank journals too. Try white lithium grease to loosen it up. And if it's really hard to turn DON't force it, you could bend valves. I built an engine similar to yours, and I had alot of problems with the bottom end as well, but I had bought a new crank from Advance and it was burred to death. Ruined a set of bearings. Another thing, did you lube the pistons and rings good?? That could be bad if you didn't and turned it too much. You'll scratch up the cylinder walls and you'll have alot of blow by. You also said that they honed it, did they make sure that the cylinder's weren't egg shaped. That can also cause a problem. I have ran into that more than once. I spent 3,000 on an engine, and the machine shop bored two of the cyliders egg shaped and killed my block, pistons and all! I went redneck at that point. I hope this info helps, I know it's not good news, but much better to catch something wrong now than to get it running like I did and it kill over before it had 200 miles on it, no thanks to York Machine Shop of course. Good luck, let me know what you find. Email me @ [email protected]

This is going to be a long post about tech info on the rebuild i'm doing to my 69 mustang, 302 rebuild. At this point i really need some info before i worry myself so much it slows down production. And i need this car on the road by a minimum of saturday the 14th.

Ok, I have a 302 motor i pulled from the car, i tore the thing down to the bare block and had it vatted, honed for new standard size rings, new rings installed, i forgot to check endgap but since i didn't bore to the next size and it was honed i am now thinking the endgap should be fine. I also bought some new standard size main and rod bearings and installed those.

All my new mods/parts installed are:
Edelbrock 14" air cleaner-sign. series
Edelbrock 600cfm Performer carb
Edelbrock Performer 4 bl intake manifold
Edelbrock Performer-Plus Camshaft
New Cast Rings
all new main/rod bearings- Clevite 77
Hedman $150 shorty headers
Dual 2" exhaust with 40 series delta flows

My problem is with the install of the rods to the crank and making it work right together. This is my first full engine project on a car motor and my dad and i pretty much know the basic essentials to do this properly. We have been using a Haynes "How to Rebuild Your Smallblock Ford" book.

Now that my main and rod bearings are installed with engine lube, and all the caps placed in the same sequence they came off on, and new rings installed, should the motor be very hard to turn from the front crank bolt now? if i leave all the bolts finger tight it spins pretty easy from that bolt infront of the harmonic balancer, but if i torque all the bolts to specs (19-24 ft./lb on the rodds) the motor is extremely hard to turn, like with a 1/2 in. breaker bar either me or my dad have to put almost every ounce of weight and strength into the breaker bar to spin the crank any. before I tore this motor down i was able to spin it from the fan on the shroud that cools the motor down, with everything hooked up. I have the spark plugs in at this point but I still think I should be able to turn this thing much easier than what it is allowing me, and i think endgap might not be an issue because the motor moves easy untill I torque all the bolts down.

What else is there i need to check for? I can fit a .04 feeler gauge inbetween all the rods on the crank. Is this something i have to worry about or will this motor loosen up as it's new parts break in and become more lubricated? I also put in an Edelbrock Performer-Plus Camshaft and hyd. lifter set. I have not changed anything on the heads, but there is new gaskets everywere throughout the motor, and i put a new front tranny seal in.

 

[joshs69stang]

Thanks. This is the second time in 2 weeks i've had the motor outa this car, first time i did this was the same exact senario without the fresh bearings, i had to take the motor back outa the car cuz once i got it running I had no oil pressure and forgot those plugs behind the timing cover and cam gears. Besides the lack of oil pressure and my dry lifters/valves making noise, the motor sounded great at idle and short revs to half throttle after i set the timing and carb, I only ran it at idle for about 5 minutes to see if my sender unit/gauge was bad and if the lifters would get lubed and stop making noise, but they didn't so i put a new oil pressure sender unit in and ground my guage and it pegged so i'm good there, so i'm sure i don't have clearance problems. I dipped every ring in oil before i put the new ones on the pistons, and put what i thought was plenty of engine lube in my bearings, i'll pull the spark plugs and if it still takes all my body weight and strength on a 1/2 breaker bar i know i've got problems. Also i need to know how many oil/freeze plugs there should be behind the timing cover, because there is 2 holes around the cam, and one set back behind the distributer gear and shaft that i'm not sure if a plug goes in or not? so how many are supposed to go there on a 302 and what's the one behind the dist. gear/shaft for? Any help is appreciated!

 

[D.Hearne]

With the plugs in it will be extremely hard to turn a fresh engine. If you ran it for 5 minutes without oil pressure, then your bearings are probably toast. Ditto for the cam and lifters. I know you don't want to hear that, but it's just the facts. Next time prime the motor's oiling system before startup. And make sure the crank turns freely after the shortblock is assembled ( before you bolt the heads on) It should still be tight, but not hard to turn with a breaker bar.

 

[joshs69stang]

With the plugs in it will be extremely hard to turn a fresh engine. If you ran it for 5 minutes without oil pressure, then your bearings are probably toast. Ditto for the cam and lifters. I know you don't want to hear that, but it's just the facts. Next time prime the motor's oiling system before startup. And make sure the crank turns freely after the shortblock is assembled ( before you bolt the heads on) It should still be tight, but not hard to turn with a breaker bar.

I did not put fresh bearings in the motor when i ran it for 5 minutes, I didn't get any oil pressure so i had to tear it down again, luckly i found a plug missing which is a simple fix and now that the motor is apart i decided to put fresh bearings in it because it would worry me with the old ones, what does ditto mean? sorry but i'm pretty new to this site and haven't seen that b4. i would imagine my lifters and cam would not be harmed, i did not rev it up high and the sound never got louder so my lifters should be fine right? I didn't prime my oil system with a drill bit or anything, what i did was disconnect the coil wire and turn the motor over a lil bit, this time i'll use a drill before i turn the motor with my fresh bearings, i also had the machine shop put new cam bearings in it before i put my Performer-plus cam in.

 

[RGS0907]

I did not put fresh bearings in the motor when i ran it for 5 minutes, I didn't get any oil pressure so i had to tear it down again, luckly i found a plug missing which is a simple fix and now that the motor is apart i decided to put fresh bearings in it because it would worry me with the old ones, what does ditto mean?

You mean the 'word' ditto? It means.. 'the same with...'
I feel for you, but I need to suggest that you try to ease the pressure on yourself. Figure out an alternative for needing a car on the 14th. take a step back & do things a bit more slowly. The odds are that you may do more damage than it's worth & not be done on time. (Then again you may get done) but having a backup plan in case it doesn't will make things go a bit smoother. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Lswhat]

well when i built my motor the machine shop guys told me to install the pistons one at a time and spin the crank after each so if it does lock up like this u will know which one is the problem. Also make sure the piston is installed with the correct part facing the front and rod the same way because if they are not or the rod and piston or if they are facing opposite of each it will cause this to happen. i dont know if u changed the pistons or if u checked the pistons for this but just something to throw at you and not to make u seem stupid if u didnt know.

 

[D.Hearne]

I did not put fresh bearings in the motor when i ran it for 5 minutes, I didn't get any oil pressure so i had to tear it down again, luckly i found a plug missing which is a simple fix and now that the motor is apart i decided to put fresh bearings in it because it would worry me with the old ones, what does ditto mean? sorry but i'm pretty new to this site and haven't seen that b4. i would imagine my lifters and cam would not be harmed, i did not rev it up high and the sound never got louder so my lifters should be fine right? I didn't prime my oil system with a drill bit or anything, what i did was disconnect the coil wire and turn the motor over a lil bit, this time i'll use a drill before i turn the motor with my fresh bearings, i also had the machine shop put new cam bearings in it before i put my Performer-plus cam in.

Ditto, means just what RGS0907 said it does. It takes very little time to wipe a cam lobe without lube. I'd check the lift at the valve, I wouldn't be surprised if you found that you new high lift cam was now a low lift one. One other clue is to pull the lifters, one at a time and check for abnormal wear on the bottoms.If there's no abnormal wear then replace them in the hole that each came from. If you fail to do this you will wipe a few for sure ( I'm referring to mixing the lifters up in their holes after they've been run) I've wiped two cam lobes on two different cams and each took less than 15 minutes for this to happen with full lubrication.

 

[clev357]

A few things.
Number 1: Slow down, even experianced builders take their time on engine assembly. If this is your first one DO NOT rush.
Number 2: Did you cut or polish the crank? Running new bearings deserves at least a polish IMO.
Number 3: Recheck the rods, make sure they are all in the right holes. Also make sure the numbers on the rod face the oil pan rail they are closest too. The caps only go on one way too. Make sure this is all correct.
Check back in once you've done these things.

 

[joshs69stang]

A few things.
Number 1: Slow down, even experianced builders take their time on engine assembly. If this is your first one DO NOT rush.
Number 2: Did you cut or polish the crank? Running new bearings deserves at least a polish IMO.
Number 3: Recheck the rods, make sure they are all in the right holes. Also make sure the numbers on the rod face the oil pan rail they are closest too. The caps only go on one way too. Make sure this is all correct.
Check back in once you've done these things.

1. I have been workin very slow and careful
2. I have not cut or polished the crank, anybody have a general price macine shops charge u with on a polish and cut job, i'm gonna plastigauge it all tomorrow
3. I never separated the rods from the pistons and the pistons all point the right way, i've put the caps on so the grooves in the bearing inserts face opposite sides eachother
4. I've played with feeler gauges and loosened this and tightened that and checked this checked that, it never ends guys, i played with this one problem for about 2 hours yesturday and 4 today, i've finally come to the conclusion from I'm getting the same results with every single thing I do, everything is smooth no matter what untill i torque the rod caps fully, and that requires about a 3 foot pipe on a big breaker bar to move the damn thing so i must not have any clearance at all, so i will prob end up having the crank polished and cut to fit right.
5. I do need this car by saturday though because my dad has to go out of town for six weeks starting sunday morning due to high end job training and stuff, we live in Az and he has to go to Texas for 6 weeks so i really need my car back cuz i don't wanna mob in his Oldsmobile Intrige the whole time he's gone, than he gets to come back for 2 weeks and leave for another 5. so you can see why time is an issue for me, hopefully his excellent mechanic buddy will help me out if i don't get this thing on the road before he takes off.

 

[D.Hearne]

Check the backside of the bearings to see if they're the proper size for your crank. They will have either std. , .010, .020 , etc stamped into them depending on their size.

 

[Lswhat]

i agree that could really be bad.

 

[bnickel]

make sure the big end of the rods are actually round, i had one that had a flat spot after smashing a piston into the block and we didn't notice it until we put the thing back together. basically the rod cap got flattened out and it took about 95 ft/lbs to turn the motor over without the heads even being on it, that was my first engine build, so i have learned to check these things on every motor now

 

[Edbert]

Take one cap off and see if it loosens. If not put it back on and take off another one and try. Keep that up until you find the culprit. If it is not a main cap then try the rod ends. Just be methodical and the process of elimination should locate the problem.

 

[joshs69stang]

found the problem, the one and two cyl caps were mixed up and it turns as it should. the motor is back in the car hooked up dry, i am about to go put all the fluids in it and connect my powersteering pump and fire it up. Thanks for all the help, all this information is very helpful and will be used in my future projects. hopefully i'll be on the road tonight, anybody have a good explanation or picture of how the throttle cable hooks up to a Edelbrock 1406 carb, it's the 600cfm electric choke. My old setup was the factory 2 barrel and i bought the throttle cable adaptor kit for the carb and some mounting bracket that's supposed to go on the intake manifold, i've got the performer manifold. anyone got any pictures of how a edelbrock kickdown linkage and throttle cable hook up? thanks alot everyone

Josh