Needed modifications for E85?

GTA_V6_Mustang · Oct 14, 2007

Ok well I just moved to a new place and I noticed, there is a gas station with E85 HERE!!! I thought that was so bad ass. And I know I have been dying to get some E85 here in south florida and now there is some so I would really love to do the change because E85 is so much cleaner, and offers increased performance. So besides the frequent change of fuel filters (which i do every 6 months or so anyways). I know in some cases you need a different tune, but on a stock engine, is there anything I myself can do (like adjusting timing to a certain amount) to get it to run on E85? I am really interested in this so any info would be great.

GTA_V6_Mustang · Oct 14, 2007

Also I know the stoicheometric efficiency of E85 is lower than regular fuel, like 12 or 11 something to 1 compared to 14.7 to 1 on normal fuel. So I was thinkinging either an adjustable FPR to enrich the engine or retarding timing to compinsate?

blksn955.o · Oct 14, 2007

Your going to need a larger inj., a tuner/tune of some kind, as well as a larger fuel pump.

GTA_V6_Mustang · Oct 14, 2007

All of thats really necessary?

trailblazr81 · Oct 14, 2007

Whats the price per gallon of the E85 there? And remember you can have up to a 20% loss in mileage when running ethanol. So if you average 20 MPG it can drop to 16!!

GTA_V6_Mustang · Oct 14, 2007

average for regular is like 2.80 and 2.50 for e85. And I get about 28mpg highway, which is what my driving consists of. I just want to run a couple of tanks of e85 threw the car to try and clean out the system a bit and see if performance improves at all because e85 is supposed to increase performance quite a bit.

reddy351 · Oct 14, 2007

GTA_V6_Mustang said:
e85 is supposed to increase performance quite a bit.

To really take advantage (from a performance perspective) of E85, one needs to increase compression and or add timing. The reason for the loss in mileage is because the engines that we are using it in are designed for gasoline. (Low compression.) Alcohol is a very stable fuel. (I think I read 120+ octane rating. Those with turbos and superchargers will LOVE the stuff!) It's nothing for an alcohol car to run effeciently/safely with 13-14/1 compression.

As far as what you would need...I would check the seals and such in the fuel system. Alcohol and rubber DO NOT get along well! At stock hp levels, your injectors should be fine. There is some headroom, there. A tune (to take advantage of that octane rating.) would be a really good idea, as you could prolly get it back to OE hp and mileage levels. Maybe even a little better.

A last note. For those who live in colder climates (like me), alcohol and cold don't do weel together, either. "Cold Starts" are almost impossible. There has to be a solution for that issue, before it can be widely used in the Northern States.

Good luck! Let us know what else you find out.

Andre_Lutz · Oct 14, 2007

Here in Brazil the price of E100 is low, so many people are turning their cars to ethanol. The only thing that is really necessary is to change the injectors to larger ones and tune the computer to advance the ignition. But within a period the ethanol will corrode the fuel pump so change the pump for a corrosion resistance one is a good idea. But if you really want to use the best features of ethanol you must increase the compression ratio of the engine. You can do this by changing the pistons or lowering the cylinder heads. If you don’t change the compression rate you won’t gain any horsepower and the car won1t have a good mileage.

The high octane number of ethanol makes it a very good fuel for high compression engines or for engines using forced induction. It can resist to compressions ratio up to 1:15 in NA engines. For supercharged engines this fuel is even better. For example my other car is a Chevy Chevette (hehehehe, it’s a funy car) with a turbocharged 1.4 liter engine, I’m using 22 psi of boost without any problem of detonation.

Car Nut · Oct 14, 2007

Anderson Ford Motorsport is supposed to have a kit for E85. Not sure about the details though. Check out the lates 5.0 mag and you'll find a lengthy article on the process with a 98/04 4.6 SOHC stang.

I'm all about helping the environment and whatnot, but as already stated, the cost benefits are dismally low. Add in the costs for the conversion and all the costs afterwards and that's one expensive option. I drive all across the Southeast U.S., and I rarely come across a station with E85.

Of course, once enough people do the conversion on enough vehicles, there should be a ton of info gained and possibly even costs benefits gained through knowledge and availability.

On the environmental topic: will someone explain why I have to pass emissions, but the local buses and other large vehicles do not. I would think that one transit bus emits 5 times or more emissions than my car. All that black smoke pouring out of hundreds of public tansit buses every day for 16+ hours a day. Maybe I'm way off base, but those seem to be the vehicles the government needs to add to their list.

Back on topic.....Will be neat to see what you come up with. Not sure if AFM will have the info you want, but they're going the direction your headed.

GTA_V6_Mustang · Oct 14, 2007

Ok well I will start to experiment with it starting with small amounts and messing with the timing and fuel and seeing how it works out and going to higher and higher amounts untill (if at all) I get good results. I will also see if I can get my buddy with his vortec 350 camaro in on this to see if it helps his runs at all. I know i have a pinging problem from 4 to 5k rpm and I am curious if the right amount of this stuff will allow me to bump my timing up a good amount and cure the pinging. Anyway I will keep you guys updated on my results and the progress. This is going to be fun!

millhouse · Oct 15, 2007

GTA_V6_Mustang said:
Ok well I will start to experiment with it starting with small amounts and messing with the timing and fuel and seeing how it works out and going to higher and higher amounts untill (if at all) I get good results. I will also see if I can get my buddy with his vortec 350 camaro in on this to see if it helps his runs at all. I know i have a pinging problem from 4 to 5k rpm and I am curious if the right amount of this stuff will allow me to bump my timing up a good amount and cure the pinging. Anyway I will keep you guys updated on my results and the progress. This is going to be fun!

If you have a pinging issue, fix it the right way!

Seriously, as already stated...this is not something that is beneficial until you start getting into uber high compression or forced induction applications. Your going to loose horsepower, decrease your fuel economy and tax your entire fuel system. Your injector duty cycle is going to get worse…and quite possibly max out at WOT.

If you don’t have the extra injectors and fuel pump to run e85, it is quite possible you will run out of fuel. This is VERY BAD for your friend's vortec camaro as it will most likely detonate and mess his sh%t up.

reddy351 · Oct 17, 2007

Ok. I just talked to a guy that has converted his 1967 383 Barracuda over the use E85. He says that he is running a little better than OE hp levels and much better than OE mileage. To do this, he runs the carb about 15% richer and adds between 4-6 degrees of timing. The same could certainly be done with slightly tuning the computer on an FI car.

I did ask him (via email) about whether he needed to put alcohol friendly gaskets and fuel lines in. I should hear back from him, soon. His name is Dan Spring and he lives out West somewhere. You should see the car. It's WILD (and a little scary) looking!

go-stang5.0 · Oct 17, 2007

All cars use different fuel system gaskets, its worth checking into if ours will be ok with that much ethanol content fuel. In my area we use 10% ethanol in the summer for cleaner emissions. I had an issue with that and my aeromotive AFPR. Apperently their reg. diaphrams have had a problem getting eaten away by the alchohol. But that way years ago, I sent it back and got another one and its been just fine for the last 4yrs. Regardless 10% isnt a lot compared to 85% and just because hoses and seals wont go at 10% they may at 85%. I would see what that anderson for kit contains as far as line/gasket upgrades so you know what could potentially fail. But yea, all the rubber aside, if the lines/gaskets are a non issue I bet you could get an AFPR turn up fuel pressure 5-10psi and fiddle with timing for some decent results.

millhouse · Oct 17, 2007

reddy351 said:
Ok. I just talked to a guy that has converted his 1967 383 Barracuda over the use E85. He says that he is running a little better than OE hp levels and much better than OE mileage. To do this, he runs the carb about 15% richer and adds between 4-6 degrees of timing. The same could certainly be done with slightly tuning the computer on an FI car.

I did ask him (via email) about whether he needed to put alcohol friendly gaskets and fuel lines in. I should hear back from him, soon. His name is Dan Spring and he lives out West somewhere. You should see the car. It's WILD (and a little scary) looking!

I'm sorry, but it's just not going to happen. You will not get better fuel economy with E85 than standard gasoline. Hell, even OEM vehicles setup for E85 will not get better fuel economy than when they run gasoline. It's because E85 produces only ~ 72% of the engergy as standard gasoline.

spacemonkey · Oct 17, 2007

I've seen what Alcohol will do to a carb car.I won't put any in my vehicles.

GTA_V6_Mustang · Oct 17, 2007

I think its worth looking into. We must face that sooner or later our precious gasoline will no longer be. So why not take a look into alternative fuels.

chuck943 · Oct 17, 2007

Look at this, maybe something like this will work for you.
http://e85vehicles.com/converting-e85.htm

GTA_V6_Mustang · Oct 17, 2007

chuck943 said:
Look at this, maybe something like this will work for you.
http://e85vehicles.com/converting-e85.htm

Ok that is awesome. Now if they could only provide a link to where I could get that, that would be great.

Stanger007 · Oct 17, 2007

I've got a buddy that runs E85 on his 'stang and has for a while. He has a twEECer and increased his injector sizes around 28%.

http://www.mustang-tech.org/wiki/94-95_Mustangs_Tuning_Fuel

Wes

GTA_V6_Mustang · Oct 17, 2007

Nevermind, just looking into it and found it. Definately seems like it might be worth looking into in the future. But too expensive for now.

Needed modifications for E85?

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