New clutch – jerky during feathered take off - ?

180 Out · Apr 11, 2006

Are the dates on these posts accurate? First posts in October '04, now revived in April '06?

Anyway, I'd start with that list from the Centerforce website. New motor mounts and/or a tranny mount are easy to install, fairly cheap, and not a bad idea in a 35-40 yr old car. U-joints also never a bad idea, and get the driveshaft balanced too.

That said, I think the highest probability is either a flywheel or clutch assembly problem. I had severe clutch chatter with my kids' '65 3-spd. I had the OE flywheel resurfaced and installed a new clutch and pressure plate, some no-name brand from Mustangs Plus. The car drove fine for the first ten minutes, but as the flywheel became heat soaked the chatter would start. It was so bad I had to pop the clutch to get rolling from a standing start.

I put in a Ram clutch and pressure plate. No improvement.

I put in a billet steel Ram flywheel. Problem solved. I believe the OE flywheel would develop hard spots when hot.

I think your clutch fork has nothing to do with the problem.

oz · Apr 11, 2006

Yes, I started this thread the end of '04, didn't do anything about the problem last summer, and still have the same problem now. I was hoping that the problem would go away with use but it has not.

72 fastback · Apr 11, 2006

I have had this problem in the past I would put a new clutch in and it would be ok for a very short time and act up again. Probally a year or two later I changed motors and had a 302 from an automatic car. when in stalling motor I had to install a pilot bushing since it was an automatic motor and problem was gone. Did you change pilot bushing.

gjz30075 · Apr 11, 2006

Another thing to check, after ALL those other items from the Centerforce site are checked, is crankshaft endplay. Too much and the clutch and flywheel can't 'meet' properly.

oz · Apr 11, 2006

* New pilot bushing - soaked in oil for several days prior to installation.
* Bluprinted engine - crank endplay was dead center within the acceptable range.

I'll print out the Centerforce list and get to work.

Thanks.

65fast · Apr 11, 2006

I have almost the same problem as you. If you let mine slip a decent amount it will take off usually pretty smooth. On hills it is b**** to start, it almost always shakes. I have a new ram clutch and pp with a rebuilt motor too. I know my problem is incorrect bellhousing aligment

Are you using a stock bell or a scattersheild? Did you put new motor mounts in? Did you torques the pp bolts down in a star pattern, and did you use their alignment tool to install the clutch?

oz · Apr 11, 2006

I also did not replace my release fork... it was worn on the fork end but I never anticipated any problems (since I didn't have any before) so I didn't change it. One side of the fork was more worn than the other...

65fast,
How do you know your bellhousing is misaligned? I am using my stock bellhousing and have no idea if it is straight.

I noticed on my old clutch disc that on both sides, the wear was worse on one half of the disc - like it was crooked or something. I never had chatter with it though.

65fast · Apr 12, 2006

My trans will pop out of third when I'm off the throttle in third gear. This is a common sympton I've read of a mis aligned bell. The tranny has less than 500 miles on a rebuilt I put on it so I am pretty sure it is aligment issue. That and the fact when I was putting the trans in and trying to get the tip on the input shaft to seat inside the pilot bearing was a real pain, it did not want to go in the last 1/4-1/2". I didnt think a stock bell would have alignment issue either but there is a section in my ford shop manual about it too.

oz · Apr 12, 2006

My wife reminded me last night that at the end of last summer, the chatter was much better than it is now (or the summer before when I did the work). She took it to a car show where she works and didn't have any problems with it. She still thinks that I need to give it more time to break in. Perhaps this is the right idea. I am not particularly patient and I wouldn't expect this kind of problem after two seasons... although I have probably only driven it 300 miles since I did the work. I am sure after sitting though all the hot/cold weather cycles of a Michigan winter, there is a pretty healthy layer of surface rust on the flywheel in the spring... I'll do a few 2nd gear starts for awhile and see if it gets back to where it was last year.

Thanks for all the help. There are a lot of very smart people on this site that are exceptionally helpful. THANKS!!!

Opentracker · Apr 12, 2006

oz said:
I took the car out last night for the first time this spring and the chatter was as bad or worst than ever... tore few holes in the yard just trying to ease it into the garage...
I have read that new motor mounts and a torque strap sometimes help the chatter. Can anyone vouch for this solution?

The clutch will chatter in our car if the torque strap isn't tight. I give it one full turn of pre-load.

John

MustangMatt1966 · Apr 12, 2006

i had horrible clutch chatter, then i got a centerforce clutch kit and had the flywheel resurfaced,(it had some hot spots on it along with some little cracks) and my problem is totally gone...might be a problem with the resurface job?? still might have hot spots? just my 2 cents

pabear89 · Apr 12, 2006

oz said:
My wife reminded me last night that at the end of last summer, the chatter was much better than it is now (or the summer before when I did the work). She took it to a car show where she works and didn't have any problems with it. She still thinks that I need to give it more time to break in. Perhaps this is the right idea. I am not particularly patient and I wouldn't expect this kind of problem after two seasons... although I have probably only driven it 300 miles since I did the work. I am sure after sitting though all the hot/cold weather cycles of a Michigan winter, there is a pretty healthy layer of surface rust on the flywheel in the spring... I'll do a few 2nd gear starts for awhile and see if it gets back to where it was last year.

Thanks for all the help. There are a lot of very smart people on this site that are exceptionally helpful. THANKS!!!

When I lived in Mi, I never got rust on the flywheel surface from sitting.

But... If Your old clutch plate was wearing crooked as you say,
I would check the nosebearing in the trans and make sure the pilot bushing and input shaft match in size.
The off sided plate wear indicates that it is not riding parallel to the flywheel and pressure plate and it is held by the trans input shaft only to keep it straight.

The slight chatter could leave as you only have a few hundred miles,
But it could only be that the new plate has just started to wear the leaning pattern into the new plate.
This will make a flatter more complete surface for a while,
but for how long before it has worn it back to the point where you had to replace it?

Fix it now or fix it later...........It's gotta be done.

Just hope that your not 600 miles from home when later comes.

PB

zookeeper · Apr 13, 2006

I know it's a pain to do, but realistically it only takes a couple hours to yank the trans. The truth of the matter is something is wrong. You have been thorough in your installation and have double-checked pretty much anything that could cause it, but the bottom line is that it needs to be done over. Rather than just not drive the car you need to take it apart, carefully inspect the parts and if you don't find anything wrong, have the flywheel surfaced, buy a different brand clutch and try again. Chatter is NOT common in new clutches, but something is causing it. Replace the clutch, pressure plate, pilot bearing and resurface the flywheel and I'll bet the problem goes away. I know it's a pain, but if you've been trying for two years to fix this problem you need to get agrressive and just do it

oz · Apr 13, 2006

I have the 'upgraded' Ram clutch - the one that is supposed to hold 30% etter than stock. I noticed in the NPD catalog last night they mention that the higher performing Ram clutch is known to chatter at low rpm... Now why didn't I see that before I bought it? If I do replace it, I will go with a $120 special instead of the $280 Ram from Summit.

Opentracker,
I got my new Prothane engine and transmission mounts from Summit yesterday and will put them in soon. I know this does not address root cause but I am inclined to allow a little more time for the clutch to break in before I tear into it. Can you tell me where you got the pieces to make your torque strap? I want to make one (I have a welder to make the frame bracket) but I want an adjustable one with the eyelets on the ends...

pabear89,
I had a 3 speed before and swapped in a rebuilt 4 speed with the new clutch. The input shaft, pilot bearing, etc were all in good condition.
As for rust - after resurfacing, the flywheel actually developed a decent coat of surface rust on it in a month sitting on my workbench before I installed it - so I know surface rust happens in MI. Every spring, as things warm up, condensation forms on the whole car. Anything ferrous that is not painted, waxed, oiled or coated in some other way will rust. If I don't have oil on the flywheel from a leaky rear main seal, I most certainly have rust when I take it out the first time in the spring. That being said, I supose that the rust could explain why the chatter is worse this spring than it was last fall. Another reason to give it a little more time before tearing into it.

The Centerforce website says it takes 500 miles of stop and go driving to break in the clutch and I am nowhere near that. I bet I only have 150 - 200 dead stop starts on this clutch so far in ~300 miles of driving. Maybe I just need more patience???

THANKS!

gjz30075 · Apr 13, 2006

I see nobody has yet answered your bellhousing alignment question so.....here goes. Basically the hole in the bellhousing needs to be perfectly (within .014 for a toploader) concentric with the hole for the pilot bushing in the crank. This is done with a dial indicater with a magnetic base on the crank and its probe riding the surface of the hole. The procedure is laid out really well in the Ford shop manual actually. When the engine is turned over, you or a buddy will be watching the dial indicator for any movement. Out of spec movement can be fixed with offset dowels used to locate the bell. Also, parallelness should also be checked. That is, the surface of the bellhousing face (where the trans mates up) should be parallel with the back of the block (where it bolts up). Can't recall the spec but its in the Ford Shop manual.

That said, I don't think misalignment will be causing your shudder but it can cause difficulty getting into gear and popping out of gear.

oz · Apr 13, 2006

jgz30075,
Thanks for the explanation.
I have the service manuals and will go take a look.

oz · Apr 18, 2006

Update:
I changed my motor mounts yesterday and found that the rubber on the left one was 3/4 separated from the metal plate... It had not let go yet but was very close. The right one was pretty stressed as well.

I forgot to remove my fan shroud when I lifted the engine so I have some work to do straightening the fan before I can take it out for a spin...

oz · Aug 16, 2006

Another update - the mounts did not solve the problem.

I took the car to a transmission shop where they replaced the flywheel and clutch with oem parts (yea, they were a little tough to find).

The chatter is mostly gone. I only feel it a tiny little bit when I hold the clutch for a feathered takeoff. The work is guaranteed for a year so if it comes back I will take it back in.

fasttback · Aug 16, 2006

oz said:
Another update - the mounts did not solve the problem.

I took the car to a transmission shop where they replaced the flywheel and clutch with oem parts (yea, they were a little tough to find).

The chatter is mostly gone. I only feel it a tiny little bit when I hold the clutch for a feathered takeoff. The work is guaranteed for a year so if it comes back I will take it back in.

So your problem was with the flywheel, clutch, or pressure plate? Did they say what was wrong with them? How many miles did you put on the old clutch set up? - I'm dealing with the same thing and checked just about everything but the clutch set up so far. I guess it time to get dirty again.

gsxrken · Aug 16, 2006

Did the mounts do anything at all, or actually make it worse? Did you notice more vibration transmited through them to the chassis? Last thing, did you notice if your engine is slightly lower now?

New clutch – jerky during feathered take off - ?

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