newbie with supercharger question

SaleenGT2001 · Nov 25, 2006

Stang|ess said:
the gearbanger will you please educate us thread was deleted .

what??

2000 blown conv · Nov 26, 2006

I've driven both KB and Centri. cars..For mainly the street I'd go KB all the way..I have a vortech w. aftercooler..running over 450 rwhp. But I mainly drive it at the track...I'm pretty well alwayse over 4000 rpm anyways so Im in my optimum boost range for a centri..The only time Im under 4000 is when I coming off the line,thats when I want the traction anyways so it works out real good for me..With a KB and my 4:10's,,, running over 450 rwhp,,I think I'd blow the wheels off leaving the line like I do now..

Stang|ess · Nov 26, 2006

SaleenGT2001 said:
what??

A great thread about superchargers. Had many many diagrams, great explanations, and I believe Tim even threw in his 2 cents.

sgarlic · Nov 26, 2006

Why do people always say, "I want 500hp street legal!" .. ****, you can build a 1000 horsepower car street legal. 500hp is nothing these days. Cars are rolling off the showroom floor with more than that. Ok, I'm done venting now.

Gearbanger 101 · Nov 26, 2006

SaleenGT2001 said:
i'm at 375HP and 385TQ i have a LOT done to my car.
he has 445HP and 465TQ all he has is the 1.7 kit with the big tube intake.

and no, my blower is FAR from its full potential. i have about 19 PSI left to go
he has only 5 PSI left.
give me about 6 months and you will see some real power!

If he's seeing 445rwhp and 465rwtq with just the addition of the big tube kit, you can be sure he's pretty much maxed out that 1.7L. He's either pullied for a lot more than 9psi, neglecting to note quite a few other modifications or just plain and simply lying about his numbers. NO 1.7L makes that much power on a 2V with just a big tube kit. That's about 50rwhp more than any other Mustang here with the same combination.

2000BLKGT · Nov 26, 2006

Gearbanger 101 said:
If he's seeing 445rwhp and 465rwtq with just the addition of the big tube kit, you can be sure he's pretty much maxed out that 1.7L. He's either pullied for a lot more than 9psi, neglecting to note quite a few other modifications or just plain and simply lying about his numbers. NO 1.7L makes that much power on a 2V with just a big tube kit. That's about 50rwhp more than any other Mustang here with the same combination.

they will make that kind of power with a 14psi pulley

crazy on a stock bottom end.....not to mention 14psi is spinning that blower right at it's limit

Gearbanger 101 · Nov 26, 2006

2000BLKGT said:
they will make that kind of power with a 14psi pulley

They sure will, but according to SaleenGT2001's post, the guy is only pullied for around 9psi. I didn't imply they couldn't make that kind of power....just not at 9lbs with only a fancy air intake and no other mods. And you are correct, 14psi is about where the 1.7L gives up....but even then the need for much higher octane fuel than what's available at the pump is a necessity.

02LaserRed2V · Nov 26, 2006

Gearbanger 101 said:
If he's seeing 445rwhp and 465rwtq with just the addition of the big tube kit, you can be sure he's pretty much maxed out that 1.7L. He's either pullied for a lot more than 9psi, neglecting to note quite a few other modifications or just plain and simply lying about his numbers. NO 1.7L makes that much power on a 2V with just a big tube kit. That's about 50rwhp more than any other Mustang here with the same combination.

I agree. Those #s have to be with 14 PSI. Matter of fact, I've seen some KB 1.7L w/forged bottom end, running 14 PSI and still make less than 450rwhp. These blowers run out of steam after 11 PSI - the hp jump from 11>14 PSI isn't as great as 6>10 PSI.

2000BLKGT · Nov 26, 2006

I wouldn't spin a 1.7l with a 14psi pulley.....at 14psi the blower is hitting over 17,000 rpms

too much.....you'll wear the lung out

SaleenGT2001 · Nov 26, 2006

the car is BONE STOCK except for the blower.

his exact mods are
KB1.7 at 9 PSI yes 9 psi on the boost gauge
KB intercooler
KB boost a pump
KB big tube intake with 75mm TB
removed cats

that is it no more mods. i have the dyno on video if anyone would like to see it. he is running the stock KB tune not even on the race side of the chip. his may be one of the few to put taht kind of power down but i am sure of what it puts down and i'm absolutely sure of what has been done to the car!

SaleenGT2001 · Nov 26, 2006

he does run a 50-50 mix of 93 and 110 octane for daily use. not sure if that makes a differance or not.

Gearbanger 101 · Nov 26, 2006

SaleenGT2001 said:
he does run a 50-50 mix of 93 and 110 octane for daily use. not sure if that makes a differance or not.

That means he gets to run an awful lot of timing. I'd be interested in seeing if he's able to duplicate those numbers on another dyno run on a different day or at a different shop.

SaleenGT2001 · Nov 26, 2006

the first pull was after a 30 min interstate drive. pulled off the road right onto the dyno. results were 423hp and 446tq. after iceing down the s/c and letting it cool 20 min it put down 445 and 464.9.

i think it does have a LOT of timing in it.

elite130 · Nov 27, 2006

GDawg said:
Colorado Stangs main shop just shut down. I'm still looking for the next best up in Denver for this Spring. Come join us locally at ColoradoStangs.com

:SNSign:

GDawg is right, jump on over to www.coloradostangs.com/forums ! There are a few people on there that are running both the 1.7L and 2.1L KB's. They can answer any and all questions you have!

BTW GDawg, Scott at Mile High is still tuning, he just doesn't have a shop.

blacksheep-1 · Nov 27, 2006

Here's my recent KB install, it uses the 2.1 @ 6psi, non intercooled version. It's on a '99 mustang Gt, 4.6, 5 speed ,and stock 3.27 gearing.
Max RWHP= 342.05
Max torque 320.59
It was till making HP at 6,500 (the new limit)
but torque peak was pretty flat from 3.000 to 6,000rpm
It's not the baddest combo on the planet, but it works great for my driving style.
I just drove the car from Tampa Fl. to the Smokie mountains and back, it got 22-23mpg, and altitude made little difference in HP.
I will say this, buy the unit from KB WITHOUT THE TUNE, I've been through so much BS with KB and their unprogrammed chip that I could write a book on it. The Kit (other than that) is great. but their customer service totally sucks (or maybe blows). My tune guy is at www.racerelated.com ask for James. and I would highly recomend them

GDawg · Nov 27, 2006

elite130 said:
GDawg is right, jump on over to www.coloradostangs.com/forums ! There are a few people on there that are running both the 1.7L and 2.1L KB's. They can answer any and all questions you have!

BTW GDawg, Scott at Mile High is still tuning, he just doesn't have a shop.

I'll be looking at getting him to do a tune for me in the Spring. Right now the car is in the middle of getting some other things done and is pretty much down for the winter.

Skidzz · Nov 27, 2006

DBMSTNG said:
it depends on what you want. but for the most part, a KB is better for street cars because it builds boost much lower in the RPM range. not that the Vortechs are bad. the just don't give you the low end grunt of a KB.

I agree. If it were me, I'd go with a Centri. blower (Novi 2000 or Vortec) because they tend give better times at the track.

Stang|ess · Nov 28, 2006

Skidzz said:
I agree. If it were me, I'd go with a Centri. blower (Novi 2000 or Vortec) because they tend give better times at the track.

If both cars driven properly, the KB will give you a better ET. It's just harder to launch the car since it has gobs of instant grunt.

Gearbanger 101 · Nov 28, 2006

Stang|ess said:
If both cars driven properly, the KB will give you a better ET. It's just harder to launch the car since it has gobs of instant grunt.

In theory, yes. In practical application....not necessarily the case. One's really no faster than the other, but the wheel spin is much easier to control with the Centrifugal car, which more often than not results in better track times. I've seen plenty of 375-400rwhp KB's unable to break into the 12's because the owner wasn't able to put all of that useless torque to the pavement.

You hear so much talk about the tones of low end torque that a P/D blower puts out (which is great when you’re running a heavier vehicle that needs all that torque to get it up and moving). But when you’ve already got guys having trouble getting off the line with stock Mustangs….what good does adding another 100lbs/ft of torque nearly right off idle do you? If you’ve got a ton of work and money sunk into your suspension and rear end, and the rest of your drive train, then maybe all of that additional bottom end would be to your benefit. Otherwise, just count on it doing a great job of buffing ash vault in the mean time.

This is coming from a guy who owns a car with a Positive Displacement blower on it, BTW!

Besides....a plullied and geared Centrifugal car will have not trouble evening things up on the bottom end before the first 60-feet is over. It still may not be as nearly instantaneous as a Positive displacement blower, but it still provides a margin of insurance when wheel spin is a concern and when it does come on, it comes on HARD!

AmBo · Nov 28, 2006

If you wanna run it only on the streets and it's a DD, seriously consider vortech/paxton. Cheap kits that will put down nice #s. Also, if it's a DD it'll act like one when you want it to, but when you get on it, it'll rip like no one's business once you get it movin'.

I'm not biased or anything. lol but seriously, I was all about the KBs for the first 2 years I had my car, but when the practicallity came into play, vortech was the winner.

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