newbie with supercharger question

GT12207 · Nov 28, 2006

I did not read this thread, but I've read and researched my fair share of the centri VS twin screw war.

let me put it this way, just go to any classified section of any mustang forum or even on Ebay and look for a used mustang supercharger kit. you'll see that 98% the ones for sale are vortech/paxton/procharger.

very rarely will you see someone sell their Kenne Bell kit. and those who do, usually sell it to upgrade to an even bigger KB model or taking the twin turbo route.

that's the bottom line. i don't care the pro's and con's on each style bla bla bla this one is for racing that one is for street bla bla bla depends on gears bla!

a new KB kit is significantly more expensive than a comparable Vortech kit, yet people still buy the KB like crazy. try calling the KB order phone number and see if you could get through.

a used complete vortech kit for 99-04 could be had for around $2500 right now if money is a big issue.. good deal

Gearbanger 101 · Nov 28, 2006

GT12207 said:
I did not read this thread, but I've read and researched my fair share of the centri VS twin screw war.

let me put it this way, just go to any classified section of any mustang forum or even on Ebay and look for a used mustang supercharger kit. you'll see that 98% the ones for sale are vortech/paxton/procharger.

very rarely will you see someone sell their Kenne Bell kit. and those who do, usually sell it to upgrade to an even bigger KB model or taking the twin turbo route.

that's the bottom line. i don't care the pro's and con's on each style bla bla bla this one is for racing that one is for street bla bla blad depends on gears bla!

No offence, but that statement proves nothing!

First off, Centrifugals kits for the most part are much cheaper than Kenne Bell kits. So selling them off and upgrading them to another blower, whether it be a Kenne Bell, or otherwise doesn't put that big of a dent in the wallet. Kenne Bells on the other hand are quite expensive (twice the price in some cases) and your average enthusiast more often than not can't afford to or can’t be bothered (and admittedly are usually content with the power they make) to upgrade beyond what they've got. So usually, when someone gets one, they keep it. Not to mention the cost and work involved in going from a centrifugal to a Positive Displacement supercharger is much less than doing it the other way around.

Secondly, Kenne Bell has pretty much cornered the market as far as the positive displacement superchargers concerned. Sure you've got a few others on the market now, but they're either A) not very well known (Allen), B) have terrible marketing, not to mention don't sell a true complete kit (FRPP), C) don't build their own kit specific to the Ford Modular (Whipple) or D) are far to expensive by comparison (Saleen and Roush). That puts Kenne Bell in a great position right off the bat with out even having to sell a kit.

Third....Kenne Bell has master story tellers working for them and writing their advertisements. Their adds read more like creative writing assignment than spec sheets and that type of exaggeration certainly works in their favor. If someone didn’t know any better, why wouldn’t they believe what they had to say? Nobody said you had to be smart or mechanically inclined to own a fast car. If it’s in writing, it must be true, right? Not to mention Kenne Bell makes it a practice to badmouth and show up their competitors with their own brand of “controlled testing” and skewed results that somehow always work out in their favor, while the whole time neglecting to, or smoothing over their own products shortcomings. When was the last time you heard any other supercharger manufacturer refer to another’s product as “inferior” or “second rate” the way Kenne Bell does? You want to talk inferior….lets talk Kenne Bell customer service. But that’s a whole other ball of wax.

Finally and probably most importantly is the fact that you've got three major brands that actively sell centrifugal superchargers for the 4.6L line up, two of which have been around for going on 10-years now, where the Modular based Kenne Bell kits have only been around for less than half that time. A lot of owners are just plain and simply willing to try something different than what the other guy has. There's always a lot of hype associated with being the new kid on the block and Kenne Bell has capitalized on it. No, they're not new to supercharging, but as far as their modular life span goes, they're still babies compared to Paxton and Vortech, so why not put yourself out there.

What does this all mean…..absolutely nothing! Every one of them puts out a dud here and there, has good and bad experiences and has very satisfied or dissatisfied customers on both ends. The fact of the matter is, is that Kenne Bell puts out a great kit….but no any greater than anyone else in the supercharger game like they would like you to believe. The sooner the Kenne Bell nut huggers realize that and stop sucking up and regurgitating Kenne Bell propaganda like Parrots quoting gospel and come back down to a realistic plane of existance, the better off everyone will be.

sgarlic · Nov 28, 2006

How about arguing via PM instead of in the thread.

jimfitzgerald · Nov 28, 2006

I started with a Paxton Novi 2000 and then a 2.2 KB. Having had both, I highly recommend the Kenne Bell. I recently ran a 9.67 at 139 mph with the 2.2 KB at a race weight of 3250. If you plan to build your bottom end, get the 2.6 KB. Otherwise, get the 2.1 KB. I recently got a 2.8 KB and ran 9.47 at 143, but the 2.8 is not commercially available for a 2V.

Gearbanger 101 · Nov 28, 2006

sgarlic said:
How about arguing via PM instead of in the thread.

Who's arguing? The thread started wanted opinions, he got them!

GT12207 · Nov 29, 2006

Gearbanger 101 said:
The sooner the Kenne Bell nut huggers realize that and stop sucking up and regurgitating Kenne Bell propaganda like Parrots quoting gospel and come back down to a realistic plane of existance, the better off everyone will be.

before you ever make that statement again, look at how defensive you are of vortech/paxton/procharger. why are you taking this so personally bud? calling people "nut huggers" and such when we're all having an adult discussion about superchargers.

SaleenGT2001 · Nov 29, 2006

:SNSign:

Kilgore Trout · Nov 29, 2006

Remember, with the KB you do not need to buy or be concerned about intake manifolds.

I very much respect Gearbanger101 and his vast knowledge. I would suggest that anyone who does not respect and take into consideration his automotive knowledge and expertise is making a grave mistake.

However, that being said, I would buy the KB if it was me.

01KBGT · Nov 29, 2006

I went back and forth between Vortech and KB, obviously went with the KB. This kit is awesome in every aspect, installation, fit and finish, driveability, and just plain fun.
The only complaint is KB does exaggerate the power levels. On their website, they quote 400 plus RWHP for the 9lb kit. You will only see that on a very aggressive, not very safe tune with a ton of timing and 100 octane gas.
With that said, the 370 RWHP feels awesome. Care pulls like a raped ape. Instant power and decent track times. (Below coming out easy with a 1.85 60')

RedDaemon · Nov 29, 2006

is your car stock otherwise 01? i believe that is the reason why you are not seeing the 'easy' 400

i could be wrong though

DaNd4Speed · Nov 29, 2006

01KBGT said:
I went back and forth between Vortech and KB, obviously went with the KB. This kit is awesome in every aspect, installation, fit and finish, driveability, and just plain fun.
The only complaint is KB does exaggerate the power levels. On their website, they quote 400 plus RWHP for the 9lb kit. You will only see that on a very aggressive, not very safe tune with a ton of timing and 100 octane gas.
With that said, the 370 RWHP feels awesome. Care pulls like a raped ape. Instant power and decent track times. (Below coming out easy with a 1.85 60')

I see youre from LI, we should race our cars sometime at etown. Should be a pretty good match!

jimfitzgerald · Nov 29, 2006

01KBGT said:
I went back and forth between Vortech and KB, obviously went with the KB. This kit is awesome in every aspect, installation, fit and finish, driveability, and just plain fun.
The only complaint is KB does exaggerate the power levels. On their website, they quote 400 plus RWHP for the 9lb kit. You will only see that on a very aggressive, not very safe tune with a ton of timing and 100 octane gas.
With that said, the 370 RWHP feels awesome. Care pulls like a raped ape. Instant power and decent track times. (Below coming out easy with a 1.85 60')

That's not normally true. You must have some other issues with your setup or tune.

dsperrine02 · Nov 29, 2006

360 R pulley upgrade

I just bought a 2002 Roush 360R, I installed the off-road H-pipe, ordered a pulley for the s/c to go from 6lbs boost to 8lbs as well as 3.73 gears, then i will tune and dyno it. My question is how much difference can i expect to see, im really curious how much difference the pulley will make. Also what can i do next?

Rickey_Bobby · Nov 29, 2006

I would go with neither, For the price of the KB, you can get a single turbo setup. Here's why I suggest this.
I started w/ a Vortech on my 99gt. Poor "seat of pants" feel till I upped it to 10psi and got custom tune. Made 410RWHP, 360RWTQ

The low end is very poor (for my taste) with vortech, however, top end is very good. Must keep engine wound up though.

The KB setup was nice. A lot more low end. Was tuned to 415RWHP but made 390 RWTQ. the added torque mage the car more fun to drive, as did the increase in low end power.

On to the T-70.
I got bored with my setup (as most back yard tinkerers do) and made my own turbo setup. (I could have bought the identical kit for $5K but hey, I'm cheap) Boost comes on after the KB, but before the vortech. Final numbers were 429RWHP, and 502RWTQ.

Note the torque differance. Car is A LOT more fun to drive.

This torque increase is because unlike a supercharger, a turbochargers max boost DOES NOT have to be at redline.

The vortech and KB make boost as a function of RPM. More RPM, more boost.
The boost from a turbo is a function of airflow. more flow, more boost.

Here's an example. With my vortech setup, I would make 10psi at 5,800RPM
with the turbo, I make 10 psi at 3,100RPM all the way to 6,500RPM.

Most of your daily driving/ screwing with other cars, you don't see redline, therefor, don't see full potential from your supercharger.

My vote is for Turbo.

01KBGT · Nov 29, 2006

-=NightHawk=- said:
is your car stock otherwise 01? i believe that is the reason why you are not seeing the 'easy' 400

i could be wrong though

Power Mods are a 70mm Throttle Body and a K&N factory replacement. 370 - 380 is right on for that set up. I've seen a 9lb with the Kenne Bell MAF and big tube kit put down 395. Too close to the limits of the engine for me. The tune I have is nice and safe.

01KBGT · Nov 29, 2006

DaNd4Speed said:
I see youre from LI, we should race our cars sometime at etown. Should be a pretty good match!

117 is a damn good trap for the power your making. Any weight reduction or slicks? And yes, i am interested. Don't make it to E town much though.

geoffsgt · Nov 30, 2006

Rickey_Bobby said:
Here's an example. With my vortech setup, I would make 10psi at 5,800RPM
with the turbo, I make 10 psi at 3,100RPM all the way to 6,500RPM.

What about the KB? I've seen videos where it looks like the boost gauge hits 9psi long before redline.

That is a huge torque difference though. That was at 3100RPM?

DaNd4Speed · Nov 30, 2006

01KBGT said:
117 is a damn good trap for the power your making. Any weight reduction or slicks? And yes, i am interested. Don't make it to E town much though.

I don't make it to the track much either. I was lucky to make it only 2 times this year. And before that it has been nearly 2 years. But now that I have the Goose, I've get that warm tingly feeling again when I go racing on the weekend.

I was running 15" welds with Nitto DR's if you want to call that weight reduction. 3500lbs with me in the car. I stil couldn't cut anything less than a 1.9 60ft.

The temp was in the low 50's, so I think that had alot to do with it. When the car was dyno'd it was 88° hence the low figures. I've been told that with my traps I was probably around the 400rwhp mark that day. Hmm maybe I should ante up for an intercooler?

jesus351c · Nov 30, 2006

i need some help. Vortech, Procharger or Paxton recomend me

and well what is better?? i need some help too!!
i have a GT 2002, shorty headers (For Racing), 373 rear end, KN filter, Shaker Scoop System in the hood, wheels bfgoodrich gforce KD 335-35-r17 back and 275-40-r17 front, Microchips tunner, X-pipe 3" and exhaust system (all 304 SS) pipes exhaust violator.

i need a supercharger, but i don´t know what buy?? PAXTON, PROCHARGER, OR VORTECH, I NEED MORE HORSE POWER!!!!!!

ohh i forgot say, the bad thing is thah my stang have a slow-matic transmission, buy i'm in process to buy a new 6 speed manual transsmision for 2800 dls aprox.

thanks really, and sorry i dont speak english very good.

jesus351c · Nov 30, 2006

jesus351c said:
and well what is better?? i need some help too!!
i have a GT 2002, shorty headers (For Racing), 373 rear end, KN filter, Shaker Scoop System in the hood, wheels bfgoodrich gforce KD 335-35-r17 back and 275-40-r17 front, Microchips tunner, X-pipe 3" and exhaust system (all 304 SS) pipes exhaust violator.

i need a supercharger, but i don´t know what buy?? PAXTON, PROCHARGER, OR VORTECH, I NEED MORE HORSE POWER!!!!!!

ohh i forgot say, the bad thing is thah my stang have a slow-matic transmission, buy i'm in process to buy a new 6 speed manual transsmision for 2800 dls aprox.

thanks really, and sorry i dont speak english very good.

newbie with supercharger question

GT12207

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Gearbanger 101

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sgarlic

jimfitzgerald

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GT12207

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01KBGT

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DaNd4Speed

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01KBGT

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