Hopefully, they only had to do my custom built stuff once though..
I can't watch this,..( it'll make me faint) but you guys can
After work today I rolled the car out and started power washing. I got A LOT of gunk off, mostly oil/dirt grime off the K member and steering rack, but tomorrow I am going to spray it down with degreaser, rinse, then soap and water. Even after power washing, there is still a layer of gravel dust that needs scrubbed off. I have the wiring up out of the way, so its pretty easy.
What I noticed though, is that I have some notorious frame rail rust on the passenger side. It doesnt look too bad, but its there. Once I have the bay fully degreased, I will wire wheel the rust and see if its rotten through or not. Fingers crossed, because I have zero $ for shop labor on this kind of fix. Not even sure I can afford plane tickets to fly @madmike1157 up here for it (if his knees were 100%).
Passenger side has the rust.
Driver's side is good. Being wet makes it look worse. Most of what you see if left over dirt. This thing lived most of its life on a gravel road.
In other news, assuming the rust is surface and is an easy fix, dropping the engine in may just wait a bit longer. My steering shaft is rusted up pretty badly, so I want to replace it and possibly the rack as well. Would be way easier with the engine out. I just dont know how long it will take me to scrape up the $$$ for the parts. Damn kids.
What I noticed though, is that I have some notorious frame rail rust on the passenger side. It doesnt look too bad, but its there. Once I have the bay fully degreased, I will wire wheel the rust and see if its rotten through or not. Fingers crossed, because I have zero $ for shop labor on this kind of fix. Not even sure I can afford plane tickets to fly @madmike1157 up here for it (if his knees were 100%).
Passenger side has the rust.
Driver's side is good. Being wet makes it look worse. Most of what you see if left over dirt. This thing lived most of its life on a gravel road.
In other news, assuming the rust is surface and is an easy fix, dropping the engine in may just wait a bit longer. My steering shaft is rusted up pretty badly, so I want to replace it and possibly the rack as well. Would be way easier with the engine out. I just dont know how long it will take me to scrape up the $$$ for the parts. Damn kids.
I whipped out the grinder with the wire wheel, and took it to the rust. Then poked and prodded with a screw driver. It is rusted through the frame rail layer, but the shock tower layer is still solid, although slightly corroded. I cleaned it up and sprayed it with rust converter. I wanted to ask you body guys' opinion before I do anything else.
Before
After
Do you think I am safe to primer, paint over and move on? Part of me wants to take the time to cut out more of the frame rail and weld on a new patch to make it prettier, however I dont have a welder, and really dont want to take the time being that I am borrowing an engine hoist and need to give it back. Am I crazy to primer, paint, and move on?
Before
After
Do you think I am safe to primer, paint over and move on? Part of me wants to take the time to cut out more of the frame rail and weld on a new patch to make it prettier, however I dont have a welder, and really dont want to take the time being that I am borrowing an engine hoist and need to give it back. Am I crazy to primer, paint, and move on?
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To my knowledge that other layer is the strut tower itself. In order to fix it right it would need to be cut out and a patch welded in.
The issue is dirt and moisture get trapped in that frame rail. There are two sleeves buried in it for the k member bolts. There are only three ways into that area. In the strut tower behind the strut in the corners behind the k member bolts, and the area in front of the strut tower below where the coil is mounted. They are very small holes but moisture and dirt get in there and create havoc on the metal.
The only way to check that area is to cut a window out and clean that area out.
They sell a repair kit with all the metal needed pre cut. Hopefully, you won't need this...but just in case.
The issue is dirt and moisture get trapped in that frame rail. There are two sleeves buried in it for the k member bolts. There are only three ways into that area. In the strut tower behind the strut in the corners behind the k member bolts, and the area in front of the strut tower below where the coil is mounted. They are very small holes but moisture and dirt get in there and create havoc on the metal.
The only way to check that area is to cut a window out and clean that area out.
They sell a repair kit with all the metal needed pre cut. Hopefully, you won't need this...but just in case.
It's a question of how long?
How long you own it, or how long before the rust penetrates to the next layer. The only real way to remove a cancer is to cut it out,..but I'm an extremist, and far from an expert in this arena. I'm thinkin this is better answered by Dave, as it applies directly to his field of expertise.
How about it @Davedacarpainter?
How long you own it, or how long before the rust penetrates to the next layer. The only real way to remove a cancer is to cut it out,..but I'm an extremist, and far from an expert in this arena. I'm thinkin this is better answered by Dave, as it applies directly to his field of expertise.
How about it @Davedacarpainter?
Im kinda on the how long do I have thought process as well... I do plan to keep the car indefinitely. If I go to town on this right now, that sets me way back. The underside has some surface rust also. I dont want this turning into a full body restoration right now, because one spot makes me want to tackle all spots. I have little kids to raise, so I am inclined to think its not extreme enough to cut out and replace the inner structure that @90sickfox is reffering to. For now I think (unless Dave sees something I dont), I am not going to cover it, as that will allow moisture to be trapped over the rust. I think I will leave it as is with the rust converter, primer and paint it. Maybe 5-10 years from now when we reach our zero debt goal (mortgage aside), I can then have it torn apart and restored professionally. Does anyone really think it is that bad, that I should honestly be concerned about the inner structure that the K member bolts through? I feel like a screw driver would be able to poke through if it were that bad...
What you're talking about doing I did to my convertible. Four years later it was a real crater in my frame rail. The car I had was driven all year round, in salt and snow, in the rain, and wasn't parked in a garage for 3 of those years. It hadn't collapsed but was all the way through by then. I would've fixed it but had other chassis issues.
A friend of mine found rust in his in the same area at the same time. He ground the spot out down to clean metal. Then he welded in a 2x3 patch over the hole. He didn't replace the hole section. Now, ( after about 9 years ) he's just starting to get a little rust in that seam above where your spot is.
A friend of mine found rust in his in the same area at the same time. He ground the spot out down to clean metal. Then he welded in a 2x3 patch over the hole. He didn't replace the hole section. Now, ( after about 9 years ) he's just starting to get a little rust in that seam above where your spot is.
This car will be garage kept, driven late spring through late fall. That is also part of my considering leaving it be until I can do it all right. But you think welding a plate over it is better? I just cant help but think condesation will get between the surfaces. If I leave it open, I can keep it dry and monitor it better, right?
Nick, you have a problem.
I'm betting that isn't surface rust, rather the rust has gone through from the inside. I might be wrong.
Take a medium size hammer directly to the center of the rust and see how it sounds when you strike it. Smack it fairly hard. Hit the other frame rail in the same spot and compare how it sounds. Plus, if it's solid, the hammer should spring back from the strike. If it doesn't, the hammer is just compressing the layers of rust and absorbing the shock.
Drop the k-member and look underneath too. As soon as i'm done plucking my engine that'll be the first thing I'll do.
I would hate to be in a bodyshop up north again for this reason. Simple repairs end up having incidental damage (rust) that can't be left unfixed.
I'm betting that isn't surface rust, rather the rust has gone through from the inside. I might be wrong.
Take a medium size hammer directly to the center of the rust and see how it sounds when you strike it. Smack it fairly hard. Hit the other frame rail in the same spot and compare how it sounds. Plus, if it's solid, the hammer should spring back from the strike. If it doesn't, the hammer is just compressing the layers of rust and absorbing the shock.
Drop the k-member and look underneath too. As soon as i'm done plucking my engine that'll be the first thing I'll do.
I would hate to be in a bodyshop up north again for this reason. Simple repairs end up having incidental damage (rust) that can't be left unfixed.
Clearly I am in denial here Dave, but I do know its a problem. Im am just hopeful its not rotten inside. If it were from the inside, the shock tower would have rotted through before the frame rail. It is the other way around though. I will do the hammer test after work today. Damn it, who's idea was this engine swap anyway?
Edit: I should mention that while wire wheeling, I was able to get that strut tower metal down to clean metal before I sprayed it with rust converter. I just wasnt smart enough to take a pic until after I sprayed it. Anyway, we will see how it feels when the hammer hits.
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Denial is a river in Cedar Rapids it seems.......
Just because the shock tower seems ok doesn’t really mean much.
Ok, I’m done pis*ing on your parade now Nick.
The rust was eating away more than my car. I had to take the afternoon off work and investigate. I hit it with a hammer, and it was almost all solid. Key word, almost. About a dime size of the spot was able to pop through.
Then I was forced to dig in. That A hole body man we have in here was right when he cursed me by saying, "I think you have a bigger problem in there Nick."
Thus, I must keep cutting. Accidentally cut into a good K member bolt brace.
Continued cutting, cleaning out Iowa gravel road dirt, until I was at good solid metal and, factory primer, and a teeny bit of very light surface rust.
I got in there with a wire brush, sand paper, spray bottle of soapy water, and hit it with compressed air. I got it cleaned out really well. Then shot it with rust inhibiting primer. Dont mind the runs on the outside, that will be cleaned up.
Then, I drove to Home Depot and bought a flux core welder kit. I started welding in my first piece, but I had to stop half way through. I cleaned, sanded, and primered the back side of the plate to keep it from rusting before welding it in place. I am using a series of spot welds until I can figure out the welder better. No pics of the plate yet, cause its ugly.
PS, my wife is royally pissed about the welder purchase. I tried telling her its a safety issue, and she says, "Yeah, for the car you dont even NEED!" I said....... biiiiiiiiitttttttccchhh.........
Then I was forced to dig in. That A hole body man we have in here was right when he cursed me by saying, "I think you have a bigger problem in there Nick."
Thus, I must keep cutting. Accidentally cut into a good K member bolt brace.
Continued cutting, cleaning out Iowa gravel road dirt, until I was at good solid metal and, factory primer, and a teeny bit of very light surface rust.
I got in there with a wire brush, sand paper, spray bottle of soapy water, and hit it with compressed air. I got it cleaned out really well. Then shot it with rust inhibiting primer. Dont mind the runs on the outside, that will be cleaned up.
Then, I drove to Home Depot and bought a flux core welder kit. I started welding in my first piece, but I had to stop half way through. I cleaned, sanded, and primered the back side of the plate to keep it from rusting before welding it in place. I am using a series of spot welds until I can figure out the welder better. No pics of the plate yet, cause its ugly.
PS, my wife is royally pissed about the welder purchase. I tried telling her its a safety issue, and she says, "Yeah, for the car you dont even NEED!" I said....... biiiiiiiiitttttttccchhh.........
I see there are factory holes in the frame rail from the tire side. I think I will silicone those shut, or at least pop little Christmas trees in them to avoid getting more water and dirt back in there. If those holes exist on the driver's side, I will be blowing it out with compressed air. There was a LOT of dirt piled up in the passenger side.