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Electrical No Crank, No Start

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bb1100yankees
  • Start date Start date Jun 7, 2017
B

Bb1100yankees

Member
Oct 21, 2016
42
1
8
Ridgewood, NJ
Jun 7, 2017
#1
  • Jun 7, 2017
  • #1
Hi Everyone-

I replaced TFI, Coil, Wires, and Plugs last week, and I now have a no crank and no start issue. I also replaced the transmission harness with an aftermarket one from LMR,as the car was previously a 4 cylinder automatic and it had the AOD harness still in it, and up until now none of the 3 connections at the transmission were connected (NSS, Reverse Light, and VSS).

I also swapped the O2 harness to the correct manual O2 harness, and prior to making it live I checked for no power at pin 46 (however I did this a few weeks ago and prior to adding the transmission harness).

Today I confirmed that the car will turn over by jumping the two posts on the starter solenoid. I also confirmed I have no power coming to the red/light blue wire on the starter solenoid.

I assume I now have to check the ignition switch and clutch safety switch wiring, and I could use some guidance on steps and what I am looking for.

Could the adding of the transmission harness and connecting the NSS on the transmission itself have caused the no crank condition? I don't want repeat a mistake.

FWIW the car would previously only start with the clutch in, would not crank in gear.

Thanks!
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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Jun 7, 2017
#2
  • Jun 7, 2017
  • #2
Do you have gauge power when the key is on?
Check your ignition switch under the dash on the steering column also the clutch switch as you suggest
 

jrichker

StangNet's favorite TOOL
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Jun 8, 2017
#3
  • Jun 8, 2017
  • #3
No Crank checklist for 5.0 Mustangs

Revised 24-Oct-2013 to update voltage drop figures.

No crank, slow crank and stuck starter solenoid problems have the same root causes – low battery voltage and poor connections. For that reason, they are grouped together.
Use the same initial group of tests to find the root cause of slow crank, no crank and stuck solenoid problems.

Since some of the tests will bypass the safety interlocks, make sure that the car is in neutral and the parking brake is set. Becoming a pancake isn’t part of the repair process…


1.) Will the car start if it is jumped? Then clean battery terminals and check battery for low charge and dead cells. A good battery will measure 12-13 volts at full charge with the ignition switch in the Run position but without the engine running.
A voltmeter placed across the battery terminals should show a minimum of 9.5-10 volts when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position and the starter engages or tries to engage. Less than this will result in a clicking solenoid, or slow cranking (if it cranks at all) or a starter solenoid that sticks and welds the contacts together.

Most auto parts stores will check your battery for free. It does not have to be installed in the car to have it checked; you can carry it with you to the auto parts store.

The battery posts and inside of the battery post terminals should be scraped clean with a knife or battery post cleaner tool. This little trick will fix a surprising number of no start problems.

The clamp on with 2 bolts battery terminal ends are a known problem causer. Any place you see green on a copper wire is corrosion. Corrosion gets in the clamped joint and works its way up the wire under the insulation. Corroded connections do not conduct electricity well. Avoid them like the plague...

If the starter solenoid welds the contacts, then the starter will attempt to run anytime there is power in the battery. The cables and solenoid will get very hot, and may even start smoking. The temporary fix for a welded starter solenoid is to disconnect the battery and smack the back of the solenoid housing a sharp blow with a hammer. This may cause the contacts to unstick and work normally for a while.


A voltmeter is handy if you are familiar with how to use it to find bad connections. Measure the voltage drop across a connection while trying to start the car: more than .25 volts across a connection indicates a problem. The voltage drop tests need to be done while cranking the engine. It's the current flowing through a connection or wire that causes the voltage drop.

See http://assets.fluke.com/appnotes/automotive/beatbook.pdf for help for help troubleshooting voltage drops across connections and components. .



Voltage drops should not exceed the following:
200 mV Wire or cable
300 mV Switch or solenoid
100 mV Ground
0.0V Connections
A voltage drop lower that spec is always acceptable.

2.) Check the battery to engine block ground down near the oil filter, and the ground behind the engine to the firewall. All grounds should be clean and shiny. Use some sandpaper to clean them up.

3.) Jump the big terminals on the starter solenoid next to the battery with a screwdriver - watch out for the sparks! If the engine cranks, the starter and power wiring is good. The starter relay is also known as a starter solenoid.

The rest of the tech note only concerns no crank problems. If your problem was a stuck solenoid, go back to step 1.

4.) Then pull the small push on connector (small red/blue wire) off the starter solenoid (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Then jump between the screw and the terminal that is connected to the battery. If it cranks, the relay is good and your problem is in the rest of the circuit.

5.) Remember to check the ignition switch, neutral safety switch on auto trans and the clutch safety switch on manual trans cars. If they are good, then you have wiring problems.

Typical start circuit...
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds



6.) Pull the starter and take it to AutoZone or Pep Boys and have them test it. Starter fails test, then replace it. If you got this far, the starter is probably bad.


Starter solenoid wiring for 86-91 Mustang



Starter solenoid wiring 92-93 Mustang or earlier Mustang with upgraded high torque mini starter.


Electrical checks for the switches and starter solenoid

Remove the small red/blue wire from the starter solenoid. Use a screwdriver to bridge the connection from the battery positive connection on the starter solenoid to the small screw where the red/blue wire was connected. The starter should crank the engine. If it does not, the starter solenoid is defective or the battery lacks sufficient charge to crank the engine.

If the starter does crank the engine, the problem is in the clutch safety circuit (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) or ignition switch.


See the Typical start circuit diagram above for wiring information for troubleshooting.

You will need a voltmeter or test lamp for the rest of the checks. Connect one lead of the voltmeter or test lamp to ground. The other lead will connect to the item under test.
Look for 12 volts on the white/pink wire when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position. Check the ignition switch first.
No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.

The next step will require you to push the clutch pedal to the floor (5 speed) or put the transmission in neutral (auto trans) while the ignition switch is turned to the Start position.
Good 12 volts, check the clutch safety switch (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) for good 12 volts on both sides of the switches. No 12 volts on both sides of the switch and the switches are defective or out of adjustment. Check the wiring for bad connections while you are at it.
 
B

Bb1100yankees

Member
Oct 21, 2016
42
1
8
Ridgewood, NJ
Jun 8, 2017
#4
  • Jun 8, 2017
  • #4
thanks guys, I will get the multimeter out and run some tests tomorrow and report back. I also ordered an ignition switch as I remembered the car stalled coming off an exit ramp a few weeks ago, so at $11 I'll replace it while I am testing and see what develops.
 
B

Bb1100yankees

Member
Oct 21, 2016
42
1
8
Ridgewood, NJ
Jun 9, 2017
#5
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #5
ok I did a few tests and here is what I found:

1. I do not have power coming to the ignition switch (i probed the white/pink wire at the ignition harness)
2. I also do not have power at the starter solenoid
3. the car will turn over if I jump the two posts at the solenoid

This was a 4 cylinder AOD car, now a 5.0 fuel injected mass air 5 speed.

Last week I changed the transmission harness to the correct manual harness. Prior to that the NSS was just hanging off the transmission not connected to anything. Was the NSS possibly jumped somewhere, and now it is plugged in, and that is an issue?

Any other guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Brian
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
27,901
10,555
203
polk county florida
Jun 9, 2017
#6
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #6
you problem will be found by following jrichker's no crank checklist.
 
B

Bb1100yankees

Member
Oct 21, 2016
42
1
8
Ridgewood, NJ
Jun 9, 2017
#7
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #7
i did some further reading online, and my problem may be that the reverse light is not wired and I believe that may complete the circuit, I ordered the harness and will try again when it arrives
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
27,901
10,555
203
polk county florida
Jun 9, 2017
#8
  • Jun 9, 2017
  • #8
ok but I still suggest the no cranks checklist. it will tell you what works and what don't, it will also save time and money
on a side note, have you pulled codes? you can have codes present without the check engine light on.
 
B

Bb1100yankees

Member
Oct 21, 2016
42
1
8
Ridgewood, NJ
Jun 15, 2017
#9
  • Jun 15, 2017
  • #9
Update. I received the reverse light harness and got it installed and the car started right up, that seems to have completed the ignition circuit.

The car was previously a 4 cylinder AOD and had the AOD tranny harness in it, although prior none of the 3 connections were made at the tranny itself, but strange the car still started and ran. But when I swapped in the correct T5 harness it would not start without the reverse light plugged in.
 

jrichker

StangNet's favorite TOOL
In Remembrance. Thank you for your contributions
Mar 10, 2000
27,512
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Dublin GA
Jun 16, 2017
#10
  • Jun 16, 2017
  • #10
The backup light has nothing to do with the starter circuit. See the diagram I posted in the No Crank Checklist".

You may have pushed, pulled or twisted some loose connection in the starter circuit. There is a jumper in the O2 sensor harness that bypasses the auto transmission shifter. If that jumper has a bad connection, the starter will not work. Although you have it fixed for today, at some time in the future, that bad connection may resurface and cause problems.
 
B

Bb1100yankees

Member
Oct 21, 2016
42
1
8
Ridgewood, NJ
Jun 16, 2017
#11
  • Jun 16, 2017
  • #11
JR, thanks and yes I was afraid of that as it seemed to good to be true.

The O2 harness I swapped in from a manual car and I believe to be pinned correctly, although I will check again for no power at pin #46 to make sure it's correct. Any guidance on how to verify the O2 harness is not shorting?

I also had no power at the starter solenoid post, and no power coming to the white/pink wire on the ignition harness.

Now it magically starts, which as you mentioned is good and bad.

Any guidance on what I should be looking for? I don't know if there are nuances given that the car was previously a 4 cylinder AOD.

Thanks!
 
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