no start=big problem... need help!

grngt50 · Jun 2, 2008

Hey everyone,

So here is the deal w/ my car problems; Two days ago my car just cuts out and dies on me while idling in a parking lot. I was able to pull codes and found the problem to be a faulty PIP sensor.........no biggie. So I got a reman'd dizzy and reinstall, but the car wouldn't fire (BTW this took place last night). So anyway, today I give it another go......nada again. But this time I notice no noise coming from the fuel pump and also the battery light and check engine light didn't light up when I was trying to start the car. So I checked the FP at the manifold, and verified that the pump is not priming. Next, I went to retrieve codes again, but the self test is now not working either. I am completely lost at this point and really need help.......this is my DD and have to be to work tomorrow night or else I'm kinda screwed I would appreciate some input or thoughts on what the problem could possibly be, so at least if worst case it needs to go to a shop I'm not gonna get raped by the mechanic

Thanks,
James
94 GT AODE Vert

HISSIN50 · Jun 2, 2008

Check fuses and consider a bad connection at the ignition switch or a bad switch.

Does the engine crank?

grngt50 · Jun 2, 2008

HISSIN50 said:
Check fuses and consider a bad connection at the ignition switch or a bad switch.

Does the engine crank?

the starter works, but that's it. Why can't I run a test to pull codes anymore? Is that caused by a blown fuse? Where is the ignition switch? Excuse the simple questions, but I'm very limited with regards to automotive electrical.

-James

Chythar · Jun 2, 2008

Sadly, your description of the problem doesn't really provide much to troubleshoot with. Not your fault, of course; it's just that problems on our cars aren't always easy to track down. Definitely check the fuses in the engine compartment, make sure none of them have blown. Also check the fuses under the dash.

When you swapped the dizzy, did you make sure to note where the rotor was pointing to, and made sure the new dizzy was pointing the same way? Also make sure the electrical connector to the dizzy is plugged in - check around the coil too.

Where in LA do you live? If you're still having trouble tonight I can stop by and try to help out. I'm in West LA near the 10 & 405 interchange. PM me by 7pm tonight if you want me to stop by.

grngt50 · Jun 2, 2008

Chythar said:
Sadly, your description of the problem doesn't really provide much to troubleshoot with. Not your fault, of course; it's just that problems on our cars aren't always easy to track down. Definitely check the fuses in the engine compartment, make sure none of them have blown. Also check the fuses under the dash.

When you swapped the dizzy, did you make sure to note where the rotor was pointing to, and made sure the new dizzy was pointing the same way? Also make sure the electrical connector to the dizzy is plugged in - check around the coil too.

Where in LA do you live? If you're still having trouble tonight I can stop by and try to help out. I'm in West LA near the 10 & 405 interchange. PM me by 7pm tonight if you want me to stop by.

when I swaped dizzy's I made several markings on both the cap and manifold to make sure it was stabbed correctly, so I don't think that is the problem........now that I think about, I think a saw a small puff of smoke near the injector harness when I tried to fire it last night..........that's the last time I remember hearing the fuel pump prime.......at least I think

I'm in Baldwin Park, just off the 605/210. I work EMS and am in the 10/405 area quite a bit, so I know that your far........especially with our beautiful LA traffic I secured a loaner Z28 for the next for days, so it's not as urgent as I previously thought. I'll monkey with it for the next couple days and see if I can come up with something. If not, I might take you up on your offer to help.........I'd supply the food and drink of your choice of course

Later,
James

Chythar · Jun 2, 2008

Hey, no prob - I can make it there by midnight at least.

I have a friend stopping by this weekend to help with my Cobra conversion project. If you need the help, we can head over on Sunday.

grngt50 · Jun 2, 2008

ok made some progress!! Checked the old Haynes manual for the fuse box layout......turns out the #18 fuse was bad causing the fuel pump and pcm not work. So now that mystery is solved........but my stupid car still wont start!! I'm assuming I stabbed the dizzy wrong, so I need to start with that again. Which leads me to me next question..........how in the heck do you know when the piston is at TDC? I've read you need to yank the #1 spark plug and turn the motor over till you feel air coming out........is this correct. Can this be done by hand (I'm alone) or do i need someone to bump the starter to do this? Once I get it to TDC, I make sure the timing pointer is at 0, point the rotor toward #1 plug then restab......is this correct? Thanks again everyone!

-James

grngt50 · Jun 2, 2008

Chythar said:
Hey, no prob - I can make it there by midnight at least.

I have a friend stopping by this weekend to help with my Cobra conversion project. If you need the help, we can head over on Sunday.

you rock..........I'll let you know either way

-James

urban96 · Jun 2, 2008

ok easiest way is this.

1) remove #1 spark plug
2)have a friend crank the car over untill u feel a puff of air come out of the hole (compression stroke)
3) use a breaker bar/whatever to turn the motor over by hand to get the timing mark @ 0degrees
4)check the dizzy, the pointer should be @ the #1 terminal

after its running use a timing light and set timing to whatever you want (10-14deg)

Chythar · Jun 2, 2008

Well, you can do it a bit faster without pulling the spark plug out AND do it yourself. Turn the crank with a ratchet & breaker bar until it points to 10BTDC, then stab the dizzy so it's pointing to the #1 terminal. Then try starting the car. If it runs but it's really rough (lots of backfiring, etc) then the dizzy is out 180deg. Pull the dizzy, rotate the crank one full turn, and re-stab the dizzy. You should then be set.

grngt50 · Jun 2, 2008

I'll go try that right now

-James

urban96 · Jun 2, 2008

Chythar said:
Well, you can do it a bit faster without pulling the spark plug out AND do it yourself. Turn the crank with a ratchet & breaker bar until it points to 10BTDC, then stab the dizzy so it's pointing to the #1 terminal. Then try starting the car. If it runs but it's really rough (lots of backfiring, etc) then the dizzy is out 180deg. Pull the dizzy, rotate the crank one full turn, and re-stab the dizzy. You should then be set.

mine did not start 180 out, so if it still dosent run try flipping it again

grngt50 · Jun 2, 2008

well now my battery is dead.........

grngt50 · Jun 4, 2008

updated status.......

I can't get this POS to start!! I must have restabbed this dizzy 20 times with no success. So anyway, I pulled codes again just for fun and am still getting code 211........not sure if that was from before as I never cleared the codes. Has anyone had problems with the part store reman'd dizzys? Also, I keep blowing the #18 fuse.......the one that controls the fuel pump and pcm among other things.........what could be the cause?

Thanks,
James

Chythar · Jun 4, 2008

I would work on why the fuse keeps blowing first, because the issues are likely related. A short can cause all sorts of things to go wrong. Code 211 means "Two or more successive erratic Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) pulses occurred, resulting in a possible engine miss or stall." It could mean the distributor is bad or that there's a short in the wiring. I would trace the wiring from the distributor back to the firewall and look for any damage to the wiring. I once had a mouse get into my engine bay and chew on the wiring for the temp sensor - it took me a while to find that one.

grngt50 · Jun 4, 2008

Chythar said:
I would work on why the fuse keeps blowing first, because the issues are likely related. A short can cause all sorts of things to go wrong. Code 211 means "Two or more successive erratic Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) pulses occurred, resulting in a possible engine miss or stall." It could mean the distributor is bad or that there's a short in the wiring. I would trace the wiring from the distributor back to the firewall and look for any damage to the wiring. I once had a mouse get into my engine bay and chew on the wiring for the temp sensor - it took me a while to find that one.

well, I know for a fact that the fuse started blowing once I tried installing the AutoZone reman'd dizzy, and never before. Not sure if it's related or not, but it makes sense. I'll go check the wiring now

oh, had one more question for ya
It pertains to the method of stabbing the dizzy you explained to me......once I stab it the first time and lets say it's 180 out, you rotate the crank one full turn and restab........I got that part. But do you restab the dizzy without touching the rotor, or should I repoint the rotor back towards the #1 terminal again?

-James

Chythar · Jun 4, 2008

Repoint the rotor towards the #1 terminal. Remember, the crankshaft rotates twice for every rotation of the camshaft. This is how you can think you're at 10btdc yet still be 180deg out.

HISSIN50 · Jun 4, 2008

Disconnect the electrical connector to the dizzy and put a new fuse in. If the fuse doesnt blow, plug your old dizzy in (just set it on the engine) and see if the fuse blows. Spin the mainshaft and see if you hear the injectors excite and the FP energize.

If that's all copacetic but you're having issues with your new dizzy, you should be ok once you get the correct dizzy. I dont remember the ins and outs but IIRC it was Sorscode whom once noted which year T-birds had the same dizzy as ours, and that it was much more likely to be correct if you buy one for that application. Your new dizzy might also have a short in the PIP wiring itself (the grommet connection can be problematic).

Good luck.

Chythar · Jun 4, 2008

I know 91-93 T-Birds have the same engine that we do, but I don't know if the dizzy is different - I used my Mustang dizzy on my 91 T-Bird long block. Hissin (as always) has a great way to troubleshoot the new dizzy - let us know how it worked.

grngt50 · Jun 4, 2008

well I finally got the car to start and it ran beautiful for the minute or so I let it idle.......few revs and all is good. So I shut her down to go tighten the dizzy hold down and put some tools away. I then went to start it one last time just for fun.............now it's not starting again!!!!! I am thinking AZ gave me a dizzy with a bunk PIP........I'll swap it with another one of theirs and see if I'm right.

BTW, I noticed some stripped wires on the harness coming from the fuel injectors out to the distributor were touching each other. I covered the exposed parts with electrical tape and so far so good with regards to the blown #18 fuse.

Thanks again for everyones help!

no start=big problem... need help!

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