Not looking good for the Mustang

05MGT · Oct 13, 2008

After picking up and readin my latest MotorTrend magazine (Nov), and reading the article on the BASE Camaro, the Mustang looks like it's about to be dethroned.

The base V6 Camaro sports a 3.6L V6 with OVER 300HP a 6-speed manual, and a 6speed paddleshifter, and netting 19/27mpg. The BASE car is aslo sporting 18" wheels wrapped in BFG Traction T/As. V8 Camaros are to have wheels from 19 to 21 inches with four piston Brembos lurking behind them. GM and MotorTrend alike expect 0-60 in 5.9 with the top speed limited at 155mph....FOR THE BASE V6!!! And with pricing to start in the low 20's it's sure to be a steal. Not to mention with its IRS, it recieved praise like, and I quote: "The Mustang can only dream of delivering handling at this level of performance and sophistication. Mustang? Nah. the new Camaro feels more akin to an American G37." All this from the base V6 Camaro.

GM has raised to bar significantly. Even with the new changes for 2010, I highly doubt the Mustang will keep up with the Camaro. Ford needs to realize that you can make a sophisticated, decent mileage, IRS car and still call it a pony car.

I love my beloved Mustang, but it looks like it's been trumped. I'm afraid I'm turning to the dark side...

1990Coupe · Oct 13, 2008

The BASE model will also be the same price as the mustang GT... the GT is supposed to have more HP in there engines for 2010...

The V8 models camaro's are supposed to be in the high 30's range.. Regardless of HP, The mustang will be more affordable.. and with the monies saved, you can mod the stang and have more HP then the camaro. Also, i don't think an IRS is a huge selling point thought i could be wrong. Alot of cobra owners pull there IRS for a solid axle. Aren't they stronger then an IRS and perform better on the track?

Oh and the camaro isn't the nicest looking thing out there!

mjk · Oct 13, 2008

the V6 camaro may have 300hp, but its way down on tq, plus when GM squeeze all the power they can out of a v6 camaro to hit 300hp, like a 350z, u cant really get anything out of it without going FI. Now a gt mustang, has nice mods... Plus they will be raising the gt hp for 2010...

I'm happy with my solid axle as I dont do motorx. At least I dont have to worry about stuff falling apart when i take off hard like the 04 cts-v does.

Now the SS camaro looks like a good deal with nice brakes and handling and 422hp.

DarkFireGT · Oct 13, 2008

It's hard to compare with the Mustang, because there's still not a lot of specifics available, so we'll compare to the current, assuming the next gen will have more power.

2010 Camaro V6 12.5lbs/hp 0-60 5.9s
2010 Camaro V8 9.65lbs/hp 0-60 4.6s
2005 Mustang V6 16.33lbs/hp 0-60 6.6s
2005 Mustang GT 11.5lbs/hp 0-60 4.9s

IRS is nice for handling, but most people buy these cars for street/strip straight line performance. You can't beat a solid axle for that, thus the reason Cobra owners tend to pull the IRS out. IRS doesn't plant the wheels as well, and loses more horsepower through the drivetrain. The current GT kills the V6 maro in terms of straight line performance, and I can only assume is not far behind the new Maro V8. I imagine the 2010 GT will have at the least 50 more ponies on tap, to keep those Maro's at bay, which is all it would seem to take. At least, on paper. But then again, with the new Maro's having IRS, it will probably be a drivers' race.

birdman941 · Oct 13, 2008

..................

Mustangr · Oct 14, 2008

My son and I just had this discusion the other day. The Camaro always has beat up on the Mustang performace wise a little bit. But the Mustang has always been there. Have you drivin a camaro lately. NO

01White5spd · Oct 14, 2008

I don't think the v6 they used was a good idea. With the low torque numbers and the weight of it, it won't be as fast as the current mustang GT and the pricing is about the same. Plus the fuel mileage is dissapointing. The previous 3.8l GM motor was almost as fast and had better fuel mileage. The 3.8L was also a lot less expensive to produce. They should have just updated the old 3.8, made the car lighter and kept it ~$20k

QUICK91LX · Oct 14, 2008

Mustangr said:
My son and I just had this discusion the other day. The Camaro always has beat up on the Mustang performace wise a little bit. But the Mustang has always been there. Have you drivin a camaro lately. NO

Actually, the Camaro hasn't ALWAYS outperformed the Mustang. In fact from 1982-1992 the Mustang dominated the Camaro in performance. In some years the Mustang encroached on Corvette performance. In the 60's they were very close, most of the 70's neither car was any good in performance but at least the Camaro still offered the big V8, but as soon as the Fox Mustang brought back performance in the early 80's, it was all over for the Camaro. The LT1 in 1993 is what brought the Camaro back to performance king.

But I think you could probably count on one hand the number of years that the Camaro outsold the Mustang, and that's what matters when it comes to which car is going to stay around.

Mustangr · Oct 14, 2008

Thats what Im talking about also.

Five Oh Brian · Oct 14, 2008

DarkFireGT said:
The current GT kills the V6 maro in terms of straight line performance, and I can only assume is not far behind the new Maro V8. I imagine the 2010 GT will have at the least 50 more ponies on tap, to keep those Maro's at bay, which is all it would seem to take. At least, on paper. But then again, with the new Maro's having IRS, it will probably be a drivers' race.

Maro? Isn't that the stuff inside of bones? Please tell me you don't call our cars Tang.

GreyDiesel · Oct 14, 2008

Five Oh Brian said:
Maro? Isn't that the stuff inside of bones? Please tell me you don't call our cars Tang.

no... but you would say stang, right.

Hey... this is an interesting thread. I think if you compare just the HP numbers, the camaro does look imposing. Here is the thing though, GM already has a 400+hp IRS car out there, the pontiac GTO... or wait, it is now called the G8. I dont see those whipping up on our stangs. You do have to take into account drivetrain loss, and the added weight of the larger engines.

I like the idea of the new camaro being more of an american G37. Any V6, not matter how much power, is going to be an entirely different experience than a muscle car, because of the exhaust note. And it looks like GM is really concentrating on V6 sales.

I am sure the camaro will be good, but GM is super late to the party. Plus, it does not matter what they do, the camaro has always been a follower, an imitation, a second thought. I think the main thing GM never understood about the Mustang, is that its not a totally bad ass car, like the camaro is supposed to be. The camaro has always been too flashy. The mustang is popular because it has enough power to compete, be exhilarating, and yet does not advertise its badassness to the world. (as much) It comes from the very beginning when Shelby took a secretary's car, and boosted it up to a race car. That is the mystique of the mustang. The everyman, the good guy. And yes, often the hero is in a one down position, but he's got more heart.

Okay... I have clearly gone too far with this, but I think you get my point.

mustangdave · Oct 15, 2008

Peak h.p. numbers mean nothing: where are the tq. numbers all thru the r.p.m.'s?
Also, I doubt the Mustang will get any power increase, and if it does, it will be a re-tune to the Bullitt numbers. It would actually make me mad to spend a couple of grand on my 08 to be equal to the 2010.

scupking · Oct 15, 2008

Ok first a 300hp V6 will not beat a 300hp V8 because of the TQ the V8 has. Second the camaro weighs a couple hundred pounds more then the mustang. Third as long as you have 4.10 gears, 92 oct custom tune and intake (pushing close to 350hp) you will be able to give the SS a run for it's money. HP isn't everything and mustangs have a big weight advantage. Fourth I would always want a solid rear axel in a muscle car. I'm one that likes going in a strait line as fast as I can. Keep the mustang simple like it always has and it will never lose.

birdman941 · Oct 15, 2008

.................

STANGmole · Oct 15, 2008

birdman941 said:
The thing I want to know is this:
Will mullets return?

For some they never went away

mustangdave · Oct 16, 2008

Joe Dirt in a Camaro

sosmoked · Oct 16, 2008

Prices aren't as far away as everybody thinks.
v6 stang - 20k - 210hp
v6 maro - 23k - 300hp

v8 stang - 27k - 300hp
v8 maro - 31k - 400-422hp

I like the fact that they are putting an IRS on the camaro. Especially with our American roads always being in such a bad shape. Plus i'm definitely happy about that whole cadillac cts-v debacle. They have had experience with making sure the IRS is stout enough to handle the power, and also avoid wheel hop that happens with it. Some engineer said that they have tested the new camaro IRS up to 650rwhp.

Yes the new mustang is coming out but, don't be surprised if the mustang gains a few hundred pounds all in the name of safety.

Also the G8 isn't exactly the same as the camaro the G8 is heavier and only has 360hp.

Of course they are concentrating on v6 sales. Isn't that the majority of sales going to be. I think that the first incarnation of a camaro v6 is very exciting. You get a 300hp car with 6spd man or 6spd auto, i-pod connect, bluetooth, stabiltrak, a telescoping steering wheel, big brakes and if you get the rs package big wheels.

congoman775 · Oct 18, 2008

sosmoked said:
Prices aren't as far away as everybody thinks.
v6 stang - 20k - 210hp
v6 maro - 23k - 300hp

v8 stang - 27k - 300hp
v8 maro - 31k - 400-422hp

I like the fact that they are putting an IRS on the camaro. Especially with our American roads always being in such a bad shape. Plus i'm definitely happy about that whole cadillac cts-v debacle. They have had experience with making sure the IRS is stout enough to handle the power, and also avoid wheel hop that happens with it. Some engineer said that they have tested the new camaro IRS up to 650rwhp.

Yes the new mustang is coming out but, don't be surprised if the mustang gains a few hundred pounds all in the name of safety.

Also the G8 isn't exactly the same as the camaro the G8 is heavier and only has 360hp.

Of course they are concentrating on v6 sales. Isn't that the majority of sales going to be. I think that the first incarnation of a camaro v6 is very exciting. You get a 300hp car with 6spd man or 6spd auto, i-pod connect, bluetooth, stabiltrak, a telescoping steering wheel, big brakes and if you get the rs package big wheels.

exactly.

GM has always pushed the big V8 Camaro's, and for the most part they beat the mustangs in performance, however, mustangs are still around because they sell more V6's.

With the new 300 hp 27mpg IRS 23k Camaro, GM is looking to change that.

And somewhere up there someone mentioned the SS will be priced so high that it was more cost effective to buy a GT and mod it.

well... thats not really true.

The SS starts at 30k... and for 2k (cam swap/tune) you'll be sitting on 490-525hp.

So in reality, what he MENT to say... was it was more cost effective to buy an SS and mod it, than to buy a GT500

Mustangr · Oct 20, 2008

OMG. LOL. WTF.
Are you guys BFF's with chevy or what?
This is a Mustang forum. This is the point I was making earlier. Big Fn deal.
Mustangs Rule. Go find a chevy forum or CAMARO Forum or even a Dodge forum. have fun with that.

sosmoked · Oct 20, 2008

I don't want people to think that the new camaro will weigh 5000 lbs and cost over $40,000.

Not looking good for the Mustang

05MGT

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Playing with my wife's really makes me want one.

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