One hell of a problem

XPTB · Sep 29, 2004

This going to be a long post so bear with me. If you don't want the background info jump scraight to the Cliff Notes...

I took my car to Midas to have the alignment done and rotate the tires. I get the car back and it's running very very rough. It will shake really bad in the low RPMs but smooth out the higher I go in each gear. It was acting like it was missing. I noticed it varies some; would be smoother at times and rougher others. That made me think it was fuel related. So before I took it back to Midas I decided to change out the plugs and fuel filter just for kicks. I need my car and I can't have it sitting at Midas all the time.

First I ran SeaFoam all through the engine, nothing. I then take all the plugs out except for the rear passenger side plug, I just couldn't get to that one. Anyway, the guy I bought the car from a year ago told me it had new plugs and wires on it. The plugs looked fine except for one, which was covered in oil. I bought bosch platinum plugs (which I was later told didn't run right in the 5.0, correct me if I'm wrong). So I had 7 platinums and 1 normal plug. The car ran the exact same... rough in low RPMs. Next came the fuel filter, same problem... rough in low RPMs.

So Then I took it back to Midas on Monday and told them it wasn't doing this when I brought it to them for the alignment (I called them 10 minutes after I got the car back and they said to bring it back in, but that was friday at 5:30 and I had to have my car for saturday). They looked at it for 2 days and changed the plugs to Motorcraft stock and put new plugs on it and did an injection cleaning service. They charged me $286.30 to fix it and it still does the exact same thing. They told me it might be the performance cam in it.

My question is, what the hell is wrong with my car? Everyone tells me vacuum leak but they said they checked all that. I'm also stuck between a rock and a hard place because I didn't tell them I changed the plugs and all since I figured they would tell me I broke it. So now they think I'm screwing them because the plugs look brand new. That was my fault. But I still think this whole problem to begin with is their fault.

Cliff Notes: For a better description of the probem, When I take off it acts like the clutch is slipping, shaking like that. However the motor runs rough at idle, so I know its not the clutch. It shakes the whole car up to around 1000 to 1500 RPM depending on the gear, 5th goes up to 2000 still shaking. It seems to run ok as far as performance is concerned except around 3000 RPM it acts like a turbo kicks in and hauls ass. This never happened before, it always had power all the way through the band.

Any ideas? Let me know if you need more description of the problem... Thanks guys!

1986LX2002 · Sep 29, 2004

well first problem is you took it midas. I would not let any of those work on my car even if they paid me, they wanted 1200 bucks to put a factory exhaust back on my 88 bronco. I stuck my hand out for the keys back. Anyway back to your problem, you might need to check the timing and see if the spout connector is even plugged in. check ground wires in the engine bay and from the ECU. Hook up a fuel pressure gauge on the car and see what its at along with a vac gauge to see if you have a leak.

basic stuff to check first would be disconnected or broken vac lines, plugs, cap/rotor, I had a bad EGR valve once and that made my idle kinda weird. Also hook the car up to a scanner and see whats going on. Your O2's might be bad or going bad and the car is running to lean, check your TPS to and see what the voltage is.

Just start trouble shooting and eventually you'll narrow it down.

v8only · Sep 29, 2004

first of all, never, EVER pay for a service rendered that didn't fix the problem. Regardless of you putting in new spark plugs or not doesn't matter one bit. you paid them damn near $300 to fix a problem they did NOT fix. You go back and demand your money back. tell them you're going to contact the beaureau of automotive repairs, and be dead serious. The bereau of automotive repairs takes this **** VERY seriously, and they should listen to you if you threaten that.

KDK1988GT · Sep 29, 2004

Check all grounds...... sounds like a loose ground...
IF all grounds are good... then it sounds like a bad Mass Air reading,, be very careful and take a look at the little wire in the mass air tube a small hair or something like that could be on the wire and that would mess things up also...just clean it off... Again this could be a lot of little things... narrow it down good luck

dstanggt50 · Sep 29, 2004

My old car had similar problems, turned out to maf, I would buy a scanner and chk for codes if the car is pullin any, then clean maf. Hopefully if the maf is not bad, when you chk for codes might find something out.

Daggar · Sep 29, 2004

I know this doesn't help your situation but to reitterate what 1986LX said... There's no clue when it comes to fuel injection at places like Menike and if there is it's because the tech you talked to drove one into work and turns wrenches on it all the time. They cahrged you a whole lotta money for nuttin.

XPTB · Oct 1, 2004

After a week Midas said they can't figure it out and said to get the car basically. After asking for my money back the dude started on about how he put $150 plugs on their and a Intake control module (i think that's what he called it) plus many other parts. He also said he had a mechanic working it the car this long and that guy isn't getting paid for his work. I dunno. I'm just gonna take the car to ford where i should have taken it in the first place. Midas told me they believe its a wiring problem.... again

Even after stating that this problem was caused after they got their hands on it, the dude still bitched about all the money he lost on my car. I'm sick and tired of dealing with them. I'm gonna make sure and call the Better Business Bureau and whoever else I can... Probably gonna write a nice letter to the newspaper about it also. See if I can't get something posted about these retards

PNY PWR · Oct 1, 2004

Bad deal, Ford will figure it out. You usually don't save anything by tgoing to these chain store places. It ends up costing alot more. It could be sensor related, ignition, or whatever. Ford will put it on the computer and find out what's going on.

jerry beach · Oct 1, 2004

Dont take it to ford. They will not want to deal with it. They prolly wont fix it either and will charge you alot more $. Pull the codes and see what the puter says it wrong, do not go blindly replacing parts or it will put you in the poor house quick. Do a search on Jrichker if you dont know how to pull them. I am guessing it may be a TPS prob. That is pretty easy to check out if you have access to an analog volt meter.

Daggar · Oct 1, 2004

I second what Jerry posted. Most dealerships can read a diagnostic flow chart but can't troubleshoot. They'll probably swap parts till the problem goes away. What you might want to consider doing if you're not comfortable troubleshooting yourself is pay to have them diagnose ONLY. It usually runs about $50. If they find the problem great, they can tell you what it is and you can fix it yourself. If they don't well... you'll save the money they would have charged you start throwing parts at it.

XPTB · Oct 1, 2004

Thanks guys, ill try getting ford to just diagnose it

Andres2882 · Oct 2, 2004

I'd ask the Midas guys how much in labor they charged you to pour a fuel system cleaner into your gas tank and pull plugs. If you believe the part about a chain store having their mechanics work for free, please pass whatever you're smoking. Bottom line for Midas, you broke it, you fix it - though you might have violated that by waiting and changing the plugs. Of course when you need your car, its tough.

Had the same situation happen to me once, in the bitter end they gave me absolutely nothing and I had to buy the parts and fix it myself. Thank god it wasnt as bad as your mystery problem though. Good luck to you.

jrichker · Oct 2, 2004

Dump the codes and see what the computer says is wrong…

Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great.

See http://www.troublecodes.net/Ford/
OR
See http://www.dalidesign.com/hbook/eectest.html for more descriptive help
OR
See http://www.mustangworks.com/article...c-iv_codes.html

IF your car is an 88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see http://www.actron.com/product_detail.php?pid=16153 for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Walmart .

XPTB · Oct 15, 2004

The verdict is in.... Midas blew the motor up

Ford told me my #7 cylinder was running 22% compression. I could only think of a few possibilities: Head gasket, piston ring, cracked block, or bent valve. Now I'm blowing no smoke whatsoever so that leads me to believe its the valve. That of course means Midas though it would be fun to hot rod the car, however i still can't prove anything.

After many debates with my parents (who are forking over the money until i can pay them back) I decided to just get a new motor since it would be the most logical thing to do since I can't fix much myself. Everyone said get a new car, NO THANKS. I worked hard to find my baby, im not about to let it go.

New motor is in and everything appears to be working great, however I still have one problem hanging from the old motor. At around 2500-3000 RPM the car just spudders and the tach goes crazy still. Does that sound like the MAS being dirty? I just hope it isn't the goofy injectors. What do you guys think?

k12 · Oct 15, 2004

Because the shudder is a carry-over problem from when you had the old motor, it is possible that it is related to things not changed over, i.e., computer itself, fuel pump, distributor (TFI sensor) if taken from the old motor, etc.

You really need to pull the codes if you want our help.

p.s. I hope you kept the old motor for a future build-up or for parts?

p.s.s. I have heard so many horor stories about midas and jiffy lub etc., I would rather walk than bring a car to one of those places. I am sorry to hear that they abused your otherwise perfect stang, then charged you 300 to do nothing. Please report them to the better business people as well as check to see if your state has a consumer advocate in the attorney general's office (Pa does and they will help you).

dstanggt50 · Oct 15, 2004

I do most of my work myself, but if I would ever need anything, I would never take it to a midas or jifylube ect..., had a friend that worked at jiffylube, and whenever he got any sports car, mustang, f-body, ect.., for inspection, he would always rag on the car, laughing about how sideways he got someones vette. Just makes me think a lot of those shops would do that. That sucks about the motor.

ratrapp · Oct 15, 2004

how do you know they blew your motor?were you there?i'm not taking up for midas or jiffylube or any place like that but sometimes stuff happens.i tuned a customers car up one day(just put plugs and wires on it) and a few days later it blew a headgasket.he knew some about cars and he knew it was nothing i done.it's easy to point fingers when you didn't see what went on.

JB66 · Oct 15, 2004

As a former Ford Service Manager (Sorry!), I would recommend to everyone here that you pay for any repairs with a credit card. I say this because you have the option, if you are not satisfied that the work was done properly, to call the credit card bank and tell them the story and that you are disputing the bill. They will not only stop payment on the charge, but recall it even if it's been authorized until the dispute is resolved. Also, you are (in NY anyway)allowed to request in writing on the repair order (before any work is done) the return to you of any replaced parts that are not warranty or that do not have core charges. In NY we also have an automotive consumer protection board to settle repair disputes. Saves on lawyer fees (sorry! lawyers).

XPTB · Oct 16, 2004

ratrapp said:
how do you know they blew your motor?were you there?i'm not taking up for midas or jiffylube or any place like that but sometimes stuff happens.i tuned a customers car up one day(just put plugs and wires on it) and a few days later it blew a headgasket.he knew some about cars and he knew it was nothing i done.it's easy to point fingers when you didn't see what went on.

It had to be them. In your story, the guy's head gasket broke after he left. In my case, the car was broken when I cranked it up in their parking lot right after the alignment was done. I don't think a bent valve just happens on an alignment machine

ratrapp · Oct 16, 2004

it couldn't be any different than a guy who dropped his car off for an alignment and when i went to get in it the tranny wouldn't move.he drove it over there and parked it so it must've worked on the way over.plus was it a bent valve or a burnt valve?you hadn't been specific about that before.all you said was it lacked compression in cyl.#7

One hell of a problem

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