Paint issue!! paint peeled when laying stripes

spade33 · Jul 2, 2010

So i finnally got to painting my whole car and i have kinda a big issue. the base coat looked beautiful before i started laying stripes. Layed flat and everything. So we waited an hour and a half (longer than recomended) to lay down the 1/4 inch fine line tape and lay out my stripes. While we were laying them down there was a spot that we needed to re straiten and we pulled the tape up and the paint came with it all the way to the primer. So we stopped for the day and pulled up all the tape we had layed, and it happend in three other spots. so my question is, is there a way around this so i can lay the stripes under the clear? or am i going to have to clear the car, and put the stripes on over it then clear them seperate. Id much rather put it all under the clear but i dont see it happening, as onnly have until tomorrow to put the clear on the car. Also does it look that different with the stripes over the clear? By the way the paint is a omni base thats just coated to cover. We sanded the primer with 500 before so i dont think its too smooth. sorry for the long post. Just short on time and stressed. Thank you STANGNET!!

ill post pics of the before carnage if you all want too so you can check out the progress

runawayabc123 · Jul 3, 2010

Yikes! That is a bummer.

spade33 · Jul 3, 2010

Yeah can't really figure out why it did it. I really don't want to put the stripes on after the clear. But I don't think I have a choice. Maybe because it was so hot out. 113 later in the day. But we did spray it at 5am. Oh well. It was coming out to easily. Had to hit a snag somewhere

rusty428cj · Jul 3, 2010

When I painted my race car I sprayed 1 coat of clear than the next day wet sanded lightly and than sprayed the colors. The following day multiple coats of clear.

chris66dad · Jul 3, 2010

What primer did you use?
Did you go outside of the recoat window for the primer?
Epoxy primer typically has a 7 day window and if base is not applied within 7 days, the epoxy should scuffed and another coat applied. This promotes the chemical adhesion of the base to the epoxy.
I had no base lift when I did my stripes on the base to base.

pictures: http://chris66dad.tripod.com/id23.html

tcrote5516 · Jul 3, 2010

When you pulled the tape, did you pull it UP or BACK over itself This makes a BIG difference. Tape should always be lifted then folded back face to face flat with the surface of the car when removed.

spade33 · Jul 3, 2010

The primer was a polyester heavy fill primer. It was on for about a year before I got to paint. It was sanded before paint though. So that could of been it. As for how we pulled the tape I don't even remember. We had even another few problems. Like the paint and tape seeming to have a reaction. It left a line that even after being sanded with 400 grit smooth you could see. So it wasn't a lip but rather what seemed like a reaction. I took pictures but am at my station and can't put them up till I get off.

NasaGT · Jul 6, 2010

rusty428cj said:
When I painted my race car I sprayed 1 coat of clear than the next day wet sanded lightly and than sprayed the colors. The following day multiple coats of clear.

+1 This is what I do. I've also seen someone wait 24 hours and then spray stripes, and then clear. But there's no margin for error that way. If you have a layer of clear, and you mess up your stripes you can sand them off to the clear and try again.

Sorry that happened to you, what a bummer. The paint may be dry to the touch on the outside, but the paint hasn't fully cured and bonded to the primer yet. Thats why it peeled.

zookeeper · Jul 10, 2010

I agree that clearing before stripes or other artwork is the way to go. You can always sand the artwork back to the clear if it goes bad, but shooting base over base is a gamble I won't take. Also, be very careful when you do shoot base over clear. If you get the base too "wet" by laying it on too heavy per coat, it can wrinkle everything, the base, the clear under it and the base under that. Don't ask me how I know that...

spade33 · Jul 11, 2010

When your spraying the base over the clear how long do you wait? I was told I had to spray all my coats of clear in one shot. So that's why we weren't sure we could lay some stripes over the clear then re clear it all

zookeeper · Jul 11, 2010

If you're shooting base over clear (like your stripes) then wait a day or so. Then sand it with 500 grit wet, then shoot your base right on it, then clear as usual. As for how long you have on the long side, there is no limit. You could wet sand years later and shoot your stripes and re-clear. The thing with paint adhesion is it needs either a chemical bond or a mechanical bond. A chemical bond is when you shoot clear over base within the specified time window, usually 1-3 hrs or so. A mechanical bond is when you scuff or sand, creating tiny scratches for the paint to adhere to. There's lots of rules and exceptions, just refer to your tech sheets that you get with your paint. Hope this helps, Jim

spade33 · Jul 11, 2010

Now when you clear your stripes on say the hood after putting them on top. Do you re clear the whole hood. Or just the stripes. Because if you need can't sand between coats of clear right. Won't the scratches show through? I'm talking about the rest of the hood. Not where the fresh stripes are

zookeeper · Jul 11, 2010

Here's what I did on mine: I shot the whole car in white, and in pieces, base then clear. After the clear dried, I scuffed the entire area to be striped with 500 grit. That may seem coarse, but I've never had a problem yet, and no it doesn't show scratches. Then I assembled the scuffed trunk and the hood onto the car, laid out the stripes, and painted them. I then let the stripes flash for an hour or so, then shot the entire trunk, the entire hood and the roof of the car in clear. I then waited a few days, then wet-sanded the entire car with 500 grit as well as scuffed the door jambs with a red 3M pad. The idea here is to blend the hard edge left by the stripe base so that it no longer sticks up. After it's done, I remasked the entire car and shot three last coats of clear. Then after that's cleared, color sand, buff and it's done. By doing it this way you have (A) a safety net of clear between base and stripes and (B) stripes that are flush with the surface. I know original Shelby's aren't like that and I couldn't care less. I think it looks half-done when the artwork can be felt or seen sticking above the level of the body color.

kttrucks · Jul 15, 2010

you obviously want your stripes under the clear, Zookeeper did this the way I always recommend folks apply stripes and graphic art... over a SAFE layer of sanded clear. This way you're not on a sensitive layer of base color that can be shifted, moved and damaged. When you have clear laid down, you dont have to work within a recoat window either, you can take your time on yor layout. Sometimes even the tape-glue on the fineline can "move" the base coat.. which is what I think hnappened, and these tape tracks can show through the clear.... this just ends up looking unprofessional.

The added benefit of clearing.... sanding, stripes & graphics, then more clear, is that in the process you're actually engineering a VERY VERY flat surface that looks dipped. It's what all the pros do with a multi toned paintjob and will cost more time and a little more $$$, but the result justifies the extra effirt and expense.

tchesney · Jul 15, 2010

I recommend using House of Kolor's product, Intercoat clear, which is designed specifically for laying artwork/stripes on top of, then clear again with normal clear. Big difference in the intercoat clear is that it does not have any UV protection in it, so you can't use it as the topcoat clear.

jerseyautoparts · Jul 15, 2010

tcrote5516 said:
When you pulled the tape, did you pull it UP or BACK over itself This makes a BIG difference. Tape should always be lifted then folded back face to face flat with the surface of the car when removed.

couldn't have said it better..

spade33 · Jul 29, 2010

Ok all I got the internet at my house and i figured i would update you all on the progress and the issues that i was having before. Let me know what you think and hope you all enjoy. The pictures look a little more orange than it is in real life. Its definatly a red.

zookeeper · Jul 29, 2010

That sure looks like a case of applying your base waaay too heavily to me. Don't ask me how I found that out. Base should be applied in a couple or three light coats, otherwise you get the wrinkles you see.

spade33 · Jul 30, 2010

Well that was after it sitting for a little over 24 hours. But we got all that sanded out and figured out and no real problems now.

tims67 · Aug 4, 2010

I didn't see this post until now, but can tell the base is way to heavy. you have to remember the base is only to get the color down. I paint where my stripes go lightly,just to get color,mask them off, paint the rest of car lightly just to get enough color, pull off tape & clear everything. then wet sand & buff.

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