Prayer for a Mustang God

Heres my problem. My fuel pressure drops instantly. I can turn the key on and watch it bleed down. Within minutes its down to zero. I thought it may be an injector bleeding off. So I pulled all plugs out and no wettness or smell of fuel. I can't see any fuel anywhere. My injectors, fuel pump, filter, pressure regulator are all new. It acts like it's bleeding out air instead of fuel. When I drive the car for a couple minutes it runs fine. Then it starts running like crap. Like it's running out of fuel or not on all cylinders. At first I thought it was the timing. Thats all perfect. As far as an idle, it idles perfect, around 700-800. When the cars running like crap I can put the peddle to the floor and it will clear out and run like a beat dog. I mean run. But if I baby the peddle it will still run like crap. After 10 to 20 minutes of driving it will clear out and run fine. If I dont shut it off,:bang: it will stay running fine. If I shut it off then go again, the problem comes back.

So here's is my question. Is it possible that when I turn the key on airs getting in the fuel line and causing it to run like crap until the airs gone? If so where could the air come from? Also will intake leaks, throttle body leaks, egr leaks, IAC leaks, cause the fuel pressure to drop. Can someone help a brother fix a bug for good?
 
Did you ever do any return line crimping (carefully, with fuel line crimpers)? A new but bad FPR is not out of the question. I would also add that some folks seem to have gotten new fuel pumps with a check valve that doesnt seem to hold pressure. But the latter wouldnt probably contribute to a poor performance issue while running.
 
The fuel lines are pressurized to 40 PSI. There is no way for air to get in the lines unless the fuel pump loses it's prime and sucks air. The design of the tank and the position of the pump means that that isn't going to happen. If the baffle surrounding the fuel pump pickup breaks loose, then it is possible for fuel to slosh away from the pickup on hard cornering and low fuel level.

If there was a place in the fuel lines for air to enter, you would have a major leak from the presure inside the lines.

Do the following tests in sequence Do ALL the tests, don't skip around. This will enable you to narrow down exactly where the problem lies.

Dump the codes and see what the computer says is wrong…

Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great.

See http://www.troublecodes.net/Ford/
OR
See http://www.mustangworks.com/articles/electronics/eec-iv_codes.html

IF your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see http://www.actron.com/product_detail.php?pid=16153 for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Walmart.

Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/detailedproductdescription.asp?3829 – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $35.

Look for codes 87, 95 & 96. They are all indicators of fuel pump electrical problems.

Then do a cylinder balance test: this will spot weak cylinders or cylinders with bad injectors.


Cylinder balance test:
Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. Use a jumper wire or paper clip to put the computer into test mode. Start the engine and let it go through the normal diagnostic tests, then quickly press the throttle to the floor. The engine RPM should exceed 2500 RPM's for a brief second. The engine RPM's will increase to about 1450-1600 RPM and hold steady. The engine will shut off power to each injector, one at a time. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures. Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure

Do a compression test on all the cylinders.
Take special note of any cylinder that shows up as weak in the cylinder balance test. Low compression on one of these cylinders rules out the injectors as being the most likely cause of the problem. Look at cylinders that fail the cylinder balance test but have good compression. These cylinders either have a bad injector, bad spark plug or spark plug wire. Move the wire and then the spark plug to another cylinder and run the cylinder balance test again. If it follows the moved wire or spark plug, you have found the problem. If the same cylinder fails the test again, the injector is bad. If different cylinders fail the cylinder balance test, you have ignition problems or wiring problems in the 10 pin black & white electrical connectors located by the EGR.

How to do a compression test:
Only use a compression tester with a screw in adapter for the spark plug hole. The other type leaks too much to get an accurate reading. Your local auto parts store may have a compression tester to rent. If you do mechanic work on your own car on a regular basis, it would be a good tool to add to your collection.

With the engine warmed up, remove all spark plugs and prop the throttle wide open, crank the engine until it the gage reading stops increasing. On a cold engine, it will be hard to tell what's good & what's not. Some of the recent posts have numbers ranging from 140-170 psi. If the compression is low, squirt some oil in the cylinder and do it again – if it comes up, the rings are worn. There should be no more than 10% difference between cylinders. Use a blow down leak test (puts compressed air inside cylinders) on cylinders that have more than 10% difference.
 
I change the regulator and the fixed the pressure dropping problem. Still no change in performance. Still running like crap. I even switched to a hotter plug. No change. Anyone ever have this problem.

When I drive the car for a couple minutes it runs fine. Then it starts running like crap. Like it's running out of fuel or not on all cylinders. At first I thought it was the timing. Thats all perfect. As far as an idle, it idles perfect, around 700-800. When the cars running like crap I can put the peddle to the floor and it will clear out and run like a beat dog. I mean run. But if I baby the peddle it will still run like crap. After 10 to 20 minutes of driving it will clear out and run fine. If I dont shut it off, it will stay running fine. If I shut it off then go again, the problem comes back.
 
What codes came up? How did the CBT go? EFI cars are much more involved than their older counterparts (non-puterized stuff) so it's wise to use JR's links to see what the computer can tell you about what is going on.

I would check the TPS through its range of travel to make sure there isnt a dead spot, etc.

Good luck.
 
CODE: 31 (KOEO) - EVP circuit below minimum voltage. Vref (5 volt reference voltage supplied by the computer) missing or broken wire or bad connection in circuit. Use a DVM to check for 5 volts on the orange/white wire. If it is missing, look for +5 volts at the orange/white wire on the TPS or MAP sensor located on the firewall near the center of the car. Use the black/white wire for the ground for the DVM.
With the sensor removed from the EGR and still connected, press the plunger and watch the voltage change on the brown/lt green wire. Pull the passenger side kick panel and measure the voltage at the computer. You will need to remove the plastic cover over the wires and probe them from the backside. A safety pin may prove very useful for this task. Use pin 27, EVR input (brown/lt green wire) and pin 46, signal ground (black/white wire) to measure the voltage. The orange/white wire is Vref and should always be 5 volts -/+ .25 volt. Be sure to measure Vref at the EGR sensor to rule out any broken wires or bad connections.

Codes 94 & 44 - AIR system inoperative - Air Injection. Check vacuum lines for leaks, & cracks. Disconnect the big hose from smog pump: with the engine running you should feel air output. Reconnect the smog pump hose & apply vacuum to the first vacuum controlled valve: Its purpose is to either dump the pump's output to the atmosphere or pass it to the next valve. The next vacuum controlled valve directs the air to either the cylinder heads when the engine is cold or to the catalytic converter when the engine is warm. Disconnect the big hoses from the back side of the vacuum controlled valve and start the engine. Apply vacuum to the valve and see if the airflow changes from one hose to the next.
The two electrical controlled vacuum valves mounted on the rear of the passenger side wheelwell turn the vacuum on & off under computer control. Check to see that both valves have +12 volts on the red wire. Then ground the white/red wire and the first solenoid should open and pass vacuum. Do the same thing to the light green/black wire on the second solenoid and it should open and pass vacuum.

Remember that the computer does not source power for any actuator or relay, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.

The computer provides the ground to complete the circuit to power the solenoid valve that turns the vacuum on or off. The computer is located under the passenger side kick panel. Remove the kick panel & the cover over the computer wiring connector pins. Check Pin 38 Solenoid valve #1 that provides vacuum to the first Thermactor control valve for a switch from 12-14 volts to 1 volt or less. Do the same with pin 32 solenoid valve #2 that provides vacuum to the second Thermactor control valve. Starting the engine with the computer jumpered to self test mode will cause all the actuators to toggle on and off. If after doing this and you see no switching of the voltage on and off, you can start testing the wiring for shorts to ground and broken wiring. An Ohm check to ground with the computer connector disconnected & the solenoid valves disconnected should show open circuit between the pin 32 and ground and again on pin 38 and ground. In like manner, there should be less than 1 ohm between pin 32 and solenoid valve #2 and pin 38 & Solenoid valve #1.

If after checking the resistance of the wiring & you are sure that there are no wiring faults, start looking at the solenoid valves. If you disconnect them, you can jumper power & ground to them to verify operation. Power & ground supplied should turn on the vacuum flow, remove either one and the vacuum should stop flowing.
See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif

Code 81 – Secondary Air Injection Diverter Solenoid failure AM2. The solenoid valve located on the back side of the passenger side wheel well is not functional. Possible bad wiring, bad connections, missing or defective solenoid valve. Check the solenoid valve for +12 volts at the Red wire and look for the Lt Green/Black wire to switch from +12 volts to 1 volt or less. The computer controls the valve by providing a ground path on the LT Green/Black wire for the solenoid valve.

See http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88Stang5.0Vacuum.gif for help on the vacuum line plumbing.

Remove the large rubber hoses from the rear of the aft vacuum control valve. One hose goes to the pipe to the back of the heads. The other hose goes to the pipe that goes to the cat converters. Start the engine and apply vacuum (steal a line from the manifold somewhere) the airflow out of the valve should switch from one outlet to the other. If it doesn't then the vacuum control valve is bad.

With the engine running, stick a safety pin in the LT Green/Black wire for the solenoid valve & ground it. That should turn the solenoid on and cause air to flow out the port that goes to the pipe connected to the cats. If it doesn't, the valve is bad. If it does cause the airflow to switch, the computer or wiring going to the computer is not signaling the solenoid valve to open.

Code 82 – Secondary Air Injection Diverter Solenoid failure AM1. The dump valve air diverter valve (front vacuum operated valve) isn’t working on the Thermactor Air System (smog pump). Look for broken or missing vacuum lines on the solenoid valve to the diverter valve Check the solenoid valve for +12 volts at the Red wire and look for the Red/White wire to switch from +12 volts to 1 volt or less. The computer controls the valve by providing a ground path on the Red/White wire for the solenoid valve.

Code 84 EGR Vacuum Regulator failure – Broken vacuum lines, no +12 volts, regulator coil open circuit. The EVR regulates vacuum to the EGR valve to maintain the correct amount of vacuum. The solenoid coil should measure 20-70 Ohms resistance. The regulator has a vacuum feed on the bottom which draws from the intake manifold. The other vacuum line is regulated vacuum going to the EGR valve. One side of the EVR electrical circuit is +12 volts anytime the ignition switch is in the run position. The other side of the electrical circuit is the ground path and is controlled by the computer. The computer switches the ground on and off to control the regulator solenoid.

Charcoal canister plumbing - one 3/8" tube from the bottom of the upper manifold to the rubber hose. Rubber hose connects to one side of the canister solenoid valve. Other side of the solenoid valve connects to one side of the canister. The other side of the canister connects to a rubber hose that connects to a line that goes all the way back to the gas tank. There is an electrical connector coming from the passenger side injector harness near #1 injector that plugs into the canister solenoid valve. It's purpose is to vent the gas tank. The solenoid valve opens at cruse to provide some extra fuel.

It does not weigh but a pound or so and helps richen up the cruse mixture. It draws no HP & keeps the car from smelling like gasoline in a closed garage. So with all these good things and no bad ones, why not hook it up & use it?
 
I just ran the cylinder balance test and came up #5. I changed the plug wire and ran the test again and still #5 I'm getting ready to change the plug to see if that may be the cause. If it's not than it's the injector. Is it possible that there may a piece of dirt in the injector and it's causing it to show up in the test? If so how can I clean the injector out? If it's just a bad injector can I have it rebuilt or do they sell single 24lb injectors? Also if the injectors dirty will it cause the fuel pressure to bleed down rapidly?
 
damystikal69 said:
I just ran the cylinder balance test and came up #5. I changed the plug wire and ran the test again and still #5 I'm getting ready to change the plug to see if that may be the cause. If it's not than it's the injector. Is it possible that there may a piece of dirt in the injector and it's causing it to show up in the test? If so how can I clean the injector out? If it's just a bad injector can I have it rebuilt or do they sell single 24lb injectors? Also if the injectors dirty will it cause the fuel pressure to bleed down rapidly?
An injector stuck open will bleed down quickly and fail the cylinder balance test. You can move the injector to another cylinder and see if the cylinder balance test fault moves to follow the suspect injector.

What were the results of the compression test?
 
I never checked the compression because it's a brand new block. I cleaned the #5 injector with electric degreaser and when I ran the test again it's saying #1 cylinder now. Can it be the timing causing the test to show bad cylinders? Also jrichker, What is the stock position of the timing indicator? Is it 11 o'clock or 10 o'clock?
 
damystikal69 said:
I never checked the compression because it's a brand new block. I cleaned the #5 injector with electric degreaser and when I ran the test again it's saying #1 cylinder now. Can it be the timing causing the test to show bad cylinders? Also jrichker, What is the stock position of the timing indicator? Is it 11 o'clock or 10 o'clock?
If the engine RPM does not come up to 1350-1450 RPM and hold, the cylinder balance test will show random cylinders failing.
 
I cleaned the MAF, installed new pluggs, checked vacume leaks, ran cylinder tests, adjusted timing, adjusted fp, and it's still running weird. The cylinder test shows 9, FP is set at 42, the timing is set at 14 degrees, and no vacume leaks.

I can drive the car 1/2 a mile and it will fine. Then it starts cutting out. Backfiring and running like crap. But then I can let it run around 3500-4000 Rpms for a minute and it will clear it's self out. And when it clears out you can feel it go. It's like something is holding it back then it will let go. I've changed fuel filters, distributors, coils, still no answers. Anyone have an idea why this would happen? My dad has been a mechanic for 28 years and he cant even figuren this one out. If this was injector related wouldn't it show up in the cylinder test?