Proof of 1970 Mach 1?

vin1382 · May 12, 2004

I am trying to sell my 1970 mach 1. I have a guy who is very interested, and he just wants to make sure its a true mach 1. I have the dash vin, and from the guy i bought it from, i have a little square plaque tag that has the vin# and some other codes like the color...but not the gears and options like the door tag would have. The guy that wants to buy the car said he wants to know if I have the Vin tag thats under the hood on the fender. I have no idea where to look for that one, I am actually wondering if its the little plaque tag that I have is the fender one. One side is painted black and the other is unpainted, and it has 2 little holes where i guess it was bolted somewhere. i have pretty much everything else that a mach 1 came with, like sport lights, emblems, all that stuff. From my description, does it sound like the tag i have is the fender tag? any other ways that I can prove it to be a mach 1? Sorry for the long winded question!

DarkBuddha · May 12, 2004

I'm a little confused... you say you have the vin tag, but it sounds like its not attached to the car... Anyway, here's the deal: if the small dash mounted vin tag (the one with 2 little holes) and the title both have the same vin, and the sequence has a zero-five in the third and fourth positions, then its a legit 1970 Mach 1. The vin should read something like 0T05HXXXXXX. The 0-5 only applies to 1970 Machs (not 1969s).

With regard to the fender vin, the vin for the vehichle should be stamped into the top of the fender apron on the driver's side. You may need to remove the fender to see it.

The metal underhood tag does give some cryptic info about the car's options, but is not useful in verifying the legitimacy of the car.

Hope this helps...

Ronstang · May 13, 2004

Sounds to me like the plaque you have is the body buck tag.

Timmy · May 13, 2004

My 69 Mach 1 does not have a visible vin tag under the hood. 69 was the first year the vin to mounted on the dash and is visible through the windshield vs. being stamped on the finder. At least I think 69 was the first year. Someone help me out on that. I know I read that somewhere.

Anyway, the drivers side door should also have a tag with the vin and the trim codes if it’s the original door.

When I was checking out a Mach 1 three years ago. I had the same questions as your buyer so I called Ford and requested a 999 report on the vin. It took 4 to 6 weeks but I got a letter back giving me the trim codes for the car and it was a Mach 1.

If you buyer has that kind of time, get the report for him it was FREE. It might not hurt to do it anyway so if someone else has questions, you can just show them the report.

One more thing, have you looked under the carpet for a build sheet? I found three in mime. One was junk but the other two were readable.

Mach-One-Man · May 13, 2004

Depending on how much of a hurry you are in you could call Ford for a "History 999" report or contact Kevin Marti for one of his reports @ www.martiautoworks.com The Ford report is FREE & the Marti reports varry in price depending on how much additional info you want about the car & its production.

vin1382 · May 13, 2004

Hmm, interesting. So if the title matches the VIN# on the dash and plaque, how could it be anything other than a 1970 mach 1? How easy is it to forge a title? I don't think the buyer wants to wait 4-6 weeks to find out. But he might seeing as he really wants the car. But just wants to make sure its authentic.

DarkBuddha: I wonder that if the fenders had been replaced at one point in time, that the tag was taken off and just wasn't mounted back on...thats the only thing i can think of! I pretty much have 2 tags (dash, and i guess the fender one) and the title in agreement, and i have all mach 1 options(steering wheel, sport lamps, interior). The door that had the options and vin sticker had been replaced so I dont have that.

DarkBuddha · May 13, 2004

vin1382 said:
Hmm, interesting. So if the title matches the VIN# on the dash and plaque, how could it be anything other than a 1970 mach 1? How easy is it to forge a title? I don't think the buyer wants to wait 4-6 weeks to find out. But he might seeing as he really wants the car. But just wants to make sure its authentic.

DarkBuddha: I wonder that if the fenders had been replaced at one point in time, that the tag was taken off and just wasn't mounted back on...thats the only thing i can think of! I pretty much have 2 tags (dash, and i guess the fender one) and the title in agreement, and i have all mach 1 options(steering wheel, sport lamps, interior). The door that had the options and vin sticker had been replaced so I dont have that.

I only mention that the title should be in agreement with the vin because that would give 2 sources for verifying the 05 in the vin. Obviously, it is possible to forge anything, including a title. But its not as easy as typing one up...

Again, definitively, the 05 in the original vin would be the only way in determining if the car is a legitimate 1970 Mach 1. As for the "fender" vin, as I said, it is directly stamped into the top of the fender apron above the shock tower (where the fender bolts to). It is not on the fender itself and it is not some removable tag. If the shock tower or the fender apron has been replaced, then it is possible that the vin will not be seen there, or an incorrect vin will be present. Wanna know for sure? Pull the fender and look for it... Also, the door sticker should be in agreement with the vin, but don't trust it... doors often got replaced, and stickers are easily forged.

If the guy wants to know for sure, then the vin on the title should match the vin on the dash and the vin on the fender apron. Period. For legitimacy sake, it doesn't matter if you've got all the accessories or all the "Mach 1 stuff". That stuff can be gotten from junked cars, eBay, reproduction, etc., and a lot of it was optional on other models other than the Mach 1.

DarkBuddha · May 13, 2004

Here is an idea... just post the first 6 digits of the vin.

vin1382 · May 13, 2004

DarkBuddha said:
Here is an idea... just post the first 6 digits of the vin.

0F05M1.

vin1382 · May 13, 2004

DarkBuddha said:
I only mention that the title should be in agreement with the vin because that would give 2 sources for verifying the 05 in the vin. Obviously, it is possible to forge anything, including a title. But its not as easy as typing one up...

Again, definitively, the 05 in the original vin would be the only way in determining if the car is a legitimate 1970 Mach 1. As for the "fender" vin, as I said, it is directly stamped into the top of the fender apron above the shock tower (where the fender bolts to). It is not on the fender itself and it is not some removable tag. If the shock tower or the fender apron has been replaced, then it is possible that the vin will not be seen there, or an incorrect vin will be present. Wanna know for sure? Pull the fender and look for it... Also, the door sticker should be in agreement with the vin, but don't trust it... doors often got replaced, and stickers are easily forged.

If the guy wants to know for sure, then the vin on the title should match the vin on the dash and the vin on the fender apron. Period. For legitimacy sake, it doesn't matter if you've got all the accessories or all the "Mach 1 stuff". That stuff can be gotten from junked cars, eBay, reproduction, etc., and a lot of it was optional on other models other than the Mach 1.

So if the fender tag is directly stamped onto the fender apron, then the little plaque i have that has the Vin# and some other options and is painted black like in engine bay is not fender one. Any idea where this one would come from?

Timmy · May 13, 2004

The tag you have could be the one from the door that's missing or it could be a reproduction. I saw somewhere that a company reproduces the door tags if you can show them a title.

snowb07 · May 13, 2004

not to steal this tread but after reading this I looked for my vin # and cannot find it.
I have a 68 fastback. can some tell me where on the fender apron it is,,
thanks
-fred

DarkBuddha · May 13, 2004

vin1382 said:
0F05M1.

I'm doing this from memory, but here goes:

0 = 1970
F = Dearborn built (I think)
05 = Mach 1
M = 4 barrel 351 Cleveland
1XXXXX = sequential number

vin1382 said:
So if the fender tag is directly stamped onto the fender apron, then the little plaque i have that has the Vin# and some other options and is painted black like in engine bay is not fender one. Any idea where this one would come from?

The rectangular little plaque (which may have a sawtooth edge) was attached to the top of the fender apron also, but is not the source I was mentioning. There is also a copy of the vin actually stamped into the top of the actual fender apron too. That one would be tough to forge credibly.

BTW, there was no metal tag on the door in 1970, just a sticker.

WORTH · May 13, 2004

vin1382 said:
Hmm, interesting. So if the title matches the VIN# on the dash and plaque, how could it be anything other than a 1970 mach 1? How easy is it to forge a title? I don't think the buyer wants to wait 4-6 weeks to find out. But he might seeing as he really wants the car. But just wants to make sure its authentic.

DarkBuddha: I wonder that if the fenders had been replaced at one point in time, that the tag was taken off and just wasn't mounted back on...thats the only thing i can think of! I pretty much have 2 tags (dash, and i guess the fender one) and the title in agreement, and i have all mach 1 options(steering wheel, sport lamps, interior). The door that had the options and vin sticker had been replaced so I dont have that.

that isn't a good test, the dash tag can be changed, and the title could be from a different car that the tag came from. As far as I know the VIN is still stamped on the inner fender well under the fender flanges.

vin1382 · May 13, 2004

GODDAMNIT! my car doesn't have the fender stamped VIN#'s. Either they were painted over or the parts were replaced. I found out that the little plaque I have was the one that was by the passenger side headlight by the radiator. I have three matching pieces, the dash vin, the headlight vin, and the title. the others are missing. Does this mean there is no way I can prove that its a Mach 1?

DarkBuddha · May 14, 2004

WORTH said:
that isn't a good test, the dash tag can be changed, and the title could be from a different car that the tag came from. As far as I know the VIN is still stamped on the inner fender well under the fender flanges.

Exactly... otherwise it could just be some fastback that has been vin swapped. Seems hardly worthwhile to bother doing this for a car that is fairly common like a '70 Mach with a 351 4v, but I suppose there are folks that would if they could, all just to get an extra $500-$1000 for the effort. If I was unsure of the car's history and legitimacy, I'd either look for a different car, or pay accordingly. Though, I gotta tell you, if it were me, if you had a legit title, matching vin, and all the stuff to go with the car, I'd probably feel ok about buying the car as a Mach 1, but I'd also try to get the price down a bit.

In the end, you've got to determine why this really makes a huge difference to you and the buyer. In the end, Mach 1s were just fastbacks with some options and some unique trim. If its a matter of the buyer is looking for an investment, he's probably better off buying a car with a more evident history and legitimacy. If its a matter of image, your "Mach" could be a decent deal, ideal for building a nice restomod. Just a thought...

Good luck.

RICKS · May 14, 2004

Have you pulled BOTH fenders? You may find the VIN # stamped on top of the passenger-side aprons as well. If ALL of your aprons have been replaced or re-finished, wiping out the stamped numbers, well, there's a point where the buyer just needs to s*** or get off the pot. When you've got the buck tag, the dash tag, the title, and a car with equipment that appears to match, nobody would ever know that it WASN'T an original Mach anyways, so it's rather irrelevent. At this juncture, if I were the buyer, my concern would be less worried about the Mach thing, and far more focused on "have all these aprons been replaced or repaired? Did this car get creamed in an accident at some point in the past?" And you, as the owner, really need to look hard at those aprons with the fenders removed, or have a professional bodyman inspect them. If they appear to be original, without major repair or evidence of past damage, and the VIN stampings are ground clean off, then you may very well have an ex-stolen car that's been given tags and title from another junked Mach, OR, your car may have been really rusty or wrecked at some point. You need to put your Sherlock Holmes cap on...

vin1382 · May 14, 2004

RICKS said:
Have you pulled BOTH fenders? You may find the VIN # stamped on top of the passenger-side aprons as well. If ALL of your aprons have been replaced or re-finished, wiping out the stamped numbers, well, there's a point where the buyer just needs to s*** or get off the pot. When you've got the buck tag, the dash tag, the title, and a car with equipment that appears to match, nobody would ever know that it WASN'T an original Mach anyways, so it's rather irrelevent. At this juncture, if I were the buyer, my concern would be less worried about the Mach thing, and far more focused on "have all these aprons been replaced or repaired? Did this car get creamed in an accident at some point in the past?" And you, as the owner, really need to look hard at those aprons with the fenders removed, or have a professional bodyman inspect them. If they appear to be original, without major repair or evidence of past damage, and the VIN stampings are ground clean off, then you may very well have an ex-stolen car that's been given tags and title from another junked Mach, OR, your car may have been really rusty or wrecked at some point. You need to put your Sherlock Holmes cap on...

LOL. I pulled both. Not completely though..but enough to see under there...i think! I wouldnt be suprised if they were just painted over. the engine bay has pretty new paint on it. the thing is, i dont want to go chipping away the paint to find it. my dad also has a 1970 mach 1. his is in very good condition. after we looked on my car for the fender tags, we decided to look for his..couldnt find it either. his car has been appraised at $22,000. I dont know why someone would appraise a car that high if it wasnt pretty sure that the car was legitimate based on just his dash Vin, door sticker, and title.

DarkBuddha: That is why im very inclined to believe its a true mach 1 as well. the buyer has said he just wants to have a nice car that he can restore, and drive around on weekends. and its got everything except the fender vin#. but in the end, its still his call. Thanks for all the help everyone!

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