proper camshafts selection

for_honor · Nov 21, 2004

yeah I'm a new guy, used to own a Jeep and the wife sold it while I was deployed to Afghanistan, had a nice suprise in the drive when I got back though a 95 Cobra and after riding stock the past few months I'm already ready to modify it. Thanks for the help ya'll.

wytstang · Nov 21, 2004

She is definitely a keeper . That's awesome.

for_honor · Nov 21, 2004

haha, agreed, she does however say that this website is my crack and I just joined ealier today! Can't stop reading post and making inquiries. Must be a stang thing. Well I'm turning in for the evening. Dreams of camshafts bouncing in my head! If I only knew which one! Thanks for the advice gentlemen, I'm sure I'll pester you guys with more camshaft questions as the time draws near. I would of always though the FMS camshafts would of been better to run seeing how they are also a ford product, guess that's a general misconception to us new guys!

Rylan

RIO5.0 · Nov 21, 2004

I run the same combo...Thumpers Stg2 heads and a TMoss ported 93 Cobra...

This Summers dyno was 262rwhp....good for mid 13s...I have no complaints...I tried out a 97 Cobra on Friday..it was nice for sure, Bassani H and catback, 5 spd with 42k on it....mines a much stouter set-up....it pulled good, but not as hard as mine does....the midrange with the combo your building is nice....I ran 355s for 3 yrs...i just swapped in 373s 6 wks ago or so...much nicer....

I have done nothing in the EEC to mine...I run the Fox TB set-up and did a full re-set on the idle from scratch...since doing that, it only has a slight idle surge on first start-up...just this time of year when its cool...otherwise its fine...

for the 1500 you want to spend, this set-up will give damn near 80 HP...mine did...I have E7s and your GT40s so maybe more ????

final5-0 · Nov 21, 2004

for_honor said:
yeah I'm a new guy, used to own a Jeep and the wife sold it while I was deployed to Afghanistan

I think I speak for most when I say to you

THANK YOU SIR

had a nice suprise in the drive when I got back though a 95 Cobra and after riding stock the past few months I'm already ready to modify it. Thanks for the help ya'll.

A great woman and a great car

What more could a man want

Later
Grady

blksn955.o · Nov 21, 2004

I run the TFS cam as I swapped it in when I swapped to the unported gt40's before my stock shortblock went south. I feel that cam was alittle bit to much lift for the stock GT40's heads but real close on the split in dur. and how it favored the exh., and now that my heads are ported maybe alittle short on lift but I still like the powerband and since it was already paid for I am willing to give it a shot with the new setup.

as far as computer issues, I had a bit of a bucking at cold and when at low rpms like driving out of the 'hood at 1,200rpms. the idle sucked when cold and it would die every once and awile. After the install it took a few days for the ecu to learn some things and it died a few times at stoplighs but that went away. If your looking for the most out of your combo and stock ecu I would rec. Ed.Curtis as well. like mentioned before there are other cams that also work for the most part as well as/better than the TFS1.

saying that I did drive it last winter with 7cyl. and this cam with a stock ecu and it never left me stranded, well cept for the ice/snow I could not get out in.

mackey · Nov 21, 2004

final5-0 said:
Rylan

I would not go with any of the alphabet cams as they are kinda outdated.

Grady

If you think about it How is the Alphabet cams outdated? All roller cams are the same. It is the specs that are different. If i was on a budget and had to run a cam it would be the E-Cam not and Ed Curtis cam(no offense to him he does very high quality work from what I have heard) I haven't heard any complaints from any of Ed's customers. If you were to contact Ed and talk to him about how this heads were made he will probably explain to you the difference in the intake and exhaust ports. These heads run best with a cam that has a larger exhaust lift than intake lift. These heads also flow most optimumly in the .450 range. Your choice though.

I would run this cam:
7.Crower 15511, Valve Lift Intake w/1.6 rockers-.468, Valve Lift Exhaust w/1.6 rockers-.486, Duration Intake (at .050)-218, Duration Exhaust (at .050)-224, Lobe Center-114, Emission Legal-Yes

If you want to get in touch with Ed, even if it is just to talk about the heads I encourage you very much so to do it. He moreoften posts over at hardcore50.com.

To sum it up:
Not much HP change from .400 - .500 lift cams
Heads Favor Cams with larger Exhaust lifts
My recommendation: Crower 15511

The Info on the TFS Cam you asked for:
TFS Stage 1: .499/.510 LSA is either 112/114. Think it is 112. Too big for those heads imo.

final5-0 · Nov 21, 2004

Rylan

Here is a couple of threads I could find that might give you some info.

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=505411&highlight=dyno

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=502879&highlight=dyno

Later
Grady

95snoozer · Nov 22, 2004

JJ95GTID said:
The F cam has a .512" lift and a LSA of 114* which is good for our EEC-IV. Also, the duration @ 0.50" lift is 226* using 1.6:1 rockers.

The Steeda #19 cam is almost Identical if you use 1.7:1 rockers. Lift figures to .510" lift and the LSA is 114*. The split duration @ 0.50" is 220* intake and 226* exhaust.

Just a thought and observation

hahaha

wrong

th trick flow stage 1 i have seen amke 290-295 on lightly ported gt40s

but i would leave this one to the experts.

GO custom grind please. yes its an extra almost 200 more than what you would spend BUT think of it this way. what would you get more out of ... a 200 dollar more custom grind or the 200 dollar TB.....

i would place a call to ed curtis, buddy rawls, jay allen, rick anderson

Joes95GT · Nov 22, 2004

There is lots of misguided info in here, concerning lift and duration.

Lift figures and duration figures work in conjunction with eachother. You don't pick a lift and a duration - you pick both, not stressing the importance of either one (to an extent!!). What if I told you that my Ed Curtis spec'd cam for Edelbrock cylinder heads w/ 1.90 intake valves had almost .700" lift on BOTH sides with just 1.6 rockers? Too much lift? I think not.

Lift * duration = Lobe area. Lobe area = the area of the camshaft. The area of the camshaft is calculated in how "stout" the cam is. Cams in the 36-38 inch*degree area are good for 11's at a "heavier" weight. Again, these are generalizations.

For the most part, rough idles aren't achieved with wide LSA's (something you should use!!). It is much better to use a cam with a wide LSA not only from our EEC's standpoint, but from a daily driven standpoint as well. With a wide LSA, the powerband is opened up and isn't as peaky as compared to a narrow LSA. I don't like Comp's grinds, but they have the right idea with their 114+4 LSA's that they do for most of the OTS Ford junk.

FACT - FMS cams are outdated. Plain and simple. NO ONE uses symmetrical lobes anymore. No one. If I were on a budget, I'd save more money.

$0.02

Joe

for_honor · Nov 22, 2004

Thanks for all of the help guys, I think RIO5.0 got me sold on my original plan as for stock ported heads and the lower, he didn't have any problems with the Steeda #19 and that got recommended a lot between all of the post. SO there's where I stand, give me until late Jan and it'll be done! A few extra ponies for my pony. Thanks again for the info. Hopefully I'll make it to the strip out in Baton Rouge and get some times for ya'll too.

87GT 306 · Nov 22, 2004

Joes95GT said:
Plain and simple. NO ONE uses symmetrical lobes anymore. No one.

Ford Motorsport does. Theyre still selling plenty of cams. Everytime a FMS cam comes into conversation it is shot down. "Outdated being the select word". My freind had a street legal E-cam and it made awesome power for the street and at the strips. I know another guy who runs a B-cam and hes satisfied, as well as alot of kids at the track. I also know someone running a TF stg. 2 and it has plenty of power. Every cam has advantages and disadvantages, just like many other performance parts on a car.

95snoozer · Nov 22, 2004

no actually those cams are outdated all motor cams

a different cam for the setup WILL make more power and is well worth the investment

you are arguing about cams that are practically givin away.

but if you want an E cam hell i will sell anypone mine when i switch it out coming up.

the ramp rates on the alphabet cams are so slow and need compression to really run

Joes95GT · Nov 22, 2004

87GT 306 said:
Ford Motorsport does. Theyre still selling plenty of cams. Everytime a FMS cam comes into conversation it is shot down. "Outdated being the select word". My freind had a street legal E-cam and it made awesome power for the street and at the strips. I know another guy who runs a B-cam and hes satisfied, as well as alot of kids at the track. I also know someone running a TF stg. 2 and it has plenty of power. Every cam has advantages and disadvantages, just like many other performance parts on a car.

You are correct, sir.

What I was saying is that FMS aren't the best cams out there. I must admit I don't think there is truly "the best", though. Lets put it this way - no other big name cam companies use symmetrical lobes anymore. It makes sense to me....

When we screw everything together, we look for optimization between the parts we've collected. Camshafts do a hell of a job of tying together parts that may not work well together; they optimize. What I contend is that FMS doesn't do that job as well as other cams available.

When I buy something, I buy it because I want to be faster than the next guy. With the situation I'm in, I did not/do not need my car to be a "more tame" daily driver - mediocrity was not an option - hence the reason that the alphabet cams were ruled out.

No insults intended. Just giving my opinion....

Joe

87GT 306 · Nov 22, 2004

Yea I know Im not bashing u at all. For me it was between the stg.2 from trick flow and the F-cam. Since I already had the GT-40 intake and Gt-40 heads I figured the F cam as my choice. Trick Flow would work better with the entire trick flow set-up simply because theyre components are enginered to run together H/C/I. Im sure it wont be the only motor that goes in my car though. Next time Ill try a different cam

5.0snake · Nov 22, 2004

What about the crane 2031 cam? Does that run well with the 94-95 computers? or is the steeda #19 the best bet?

95snoozer · Nov 22, 2004

Joe i want my car to get into the low 13s and idle like stock but make 320 a the wheels, what should i get?

on another note I just bought a comp extreme cam a few minutes ago so if anyone wants the magical Ecam that put my car into the 12.8s on stock heads PM me with your offer.

I will start the bididng at 250

95snoozer · Nov 22, 2004

5.0snake said:
What about the crane 2031 cam? Does that run well with the 94-95 computers? or is the steeda #19 the best bet?

2031 is actually a good cam. It has made some great power on some 94-95 AFR cars

300+ to the wheels, go look on corral

Joes95GT · Nov 22, 2004

87GT 306 said:
Yea I know Im not bashing u at all.

No, I understood that. Sometimes I type things that don't sound critical to me but others take offense to them. I just wanted to make sure you understood that.

95snoozer said:
Joe i want my car to get into the low 13s and idle like stock but make 320 a the wheels, what should i get?

A big one.

Joe

final5-0 · Nov 22, 2004

Joes95GT said:
FACT - FMS cams are outdated. Plain and simple. NO ONE uses symmetrical lobes anymore. No one. If I were on a budget, I'd save more money.

$0.02

Joe

I took out all of the tech stuff about lift, lobe separation, yada...yada...yada cause I was hoping to compare why one would go with the GT40 stuff (old school) or the newer stuff such Edel, TW, AFR and the like. Money is obvious but not always the only motovation of our decisions about the parts we pick for our combos IMHO.

Like Joe I made the statement about the alphabet cams being out dated and some thought not.

My thoughts on the alphabet cams being out dated was cause the heads (260 - 302, E7's, GT40's, GT40P's and the like) those cams were made for have not changed very much in years. The exhaust on all of those heads needed help a good bit and the alphabet cams were cut in such a way to crutch or prop up the weak exhaust flow of them.

The newer heads don't have the exhaust probs. You would not want to use old school cams in these heads as they would leave power on the table.

I thought it would help Rylan and others if we compared the old school stuff to todays technology.

With that being said, an apple to apple comparison would be ... old school GT40 heads which Rylan now has and an old school cam that is a good match for those ported GT40 heads ... vrs ... todays street heads and a good matching cam. It does not have to be a custom cam.

The big question is what would be the difference in RW hp & tq dyno numbers as well as low end torque cause Rylan and most people want good low end power for their street car.

Again, I am trying to talk in general terms and not get bogged down in the details or which head or cam is best.

Dyno charts would be great and we got them all over the place for the newer combos but I didn't find much on the GT40 combos last night. Maybe some of you have some saved or know where to go get them.

Later
Grady

proper camshafts selection

for_honor

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for_honor

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Joes95GT

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