bigaloz said:Doesn't sound as bad as rice, but still nowhere near good old V8 sound
5-SpeedStallion said:............Because of the way the V6 fires (even fire, IIRC), it is unnecessary performance-wise to have a crossover. The V8 needs it because it is odd-fire I believe, and because of that, it has a crossover stock. Now, this is not to say that a crossover could not change the SOUND, but it is not needed to even the flow.
MSP said:@ALL
I have tested the 05 V6 Mustang with a true dual setup without any cross-over.. The result was a tremendous loss of power at the lower end, and a very raspy rice sound...
Please you must do one thing.. You must follow our lead in this because we have experience.. Do not read post and draw conclusions by people who do not own, or have actually tested the 05 V6.. The bottom line is testing.. Without testing, some are not really indulged to post opinions construde to be fact.. Be very carefull what you read here.. Make sure you are certain that the facts you read are backed up by ground floor testing..
I will not engage in any arguments over this, because alot of people here have watched the testing and follow up..
Once again, you must be very carefull which information you read, and choose to believe..
Also, the reason for a loss of power when the 05V6 is not crossed over is due to the scavenge effect the 05 V6 needs to produce power in each cylinder.. The info posted above by the previous 2 posters is false..
5-SpeedStallion said:I find it ironic that, despite my relatively extensive experience with regard to V6 Mustang exhaust and 351's obvious technical knowledge, you so quickly and definitively discount our input because we don't have "ground floor" experience w/ the '05 V6 and because our input doesn't exactly align w/ your opinion on the matter, yet you act as if you are a virtual expert on the subject of V6 exhuast just because you have had one installed.
With that said, I think there are a few things that need to be cleared up:
1. With regard to your announcement that what we had posted was "false" - The truth is, we both agreed that an X or H would change the sound but also said that "because the V6 fires evenly, a cross-over is not necessary to even the flow" ... which is true. That is not to inherently say that an X would be of NO benefit, but it is not as necessary for evening flow as it would be on a V8.
2. With regard to exhuast scavenging - Exhaust scavenging is a term thrown around a lot... not always truthfully. Exhaust scavenging is the negative pressure provided by the exhaust flowing through the headers and pipes that essentially "sucks" the exhaust gas OUT of the combustion chamber and the intake air INTO the chamber at the point that both valves are open. The main proponent of exhaust scavenging w/ regard to the exiting exhaust is its velocity. This velocity can be reduced 2 ways. The first way is when there is too much exhaust to flow through the pipe, which would arguably be the case when the V8 fires 2 cylinders on one side, which is why the X is needed to EVEN flow between the pipes. The second reason exhaust gas would slow is if the pipe is TOO big and the exhaust gas doesn't need to move quickly because there is so much pipe volume. So, both of these conditions can happen w/ a V8's exhaust because the volume of gas going through each side varies because of the way the engine fires, so the crossover is there to even the flow and keep the velocity up by eliminating too much or too little exhaust per pipe. Now, the V6 on the other hand fires evenly, so the variance in exhaust flow per pipe is very small. Therefore, the NEED for a cross-over is minimal, if not eliminated... because the flow is generally EVEN and because the two flows crossing in the middle certainly will not improve exhaust velocity.
Now, once again, I totally agree that the X or H can provide a sound difference. Also, and most importantly, I am not saying that no one should ever buy a cross-over, I am merely suggesting that one do some research before they purchase ANY exhaust system. No one system or setup is going to be the right one for everyone. So, don't buy a crappy system just because you don't have money for the setup you want... wait... you will be disappointed. Also, don't just go out and buy a system based on my recommendation or anyone else's recommendation... do your own research, think ahead to your long term goals and what system will complement that, listen to sound clips, check your price range and buy accordingly.
Good luck guys.
MSP said:Because of the way the V6 fires (even fire, IIRC), it is unnecessary performance-wise to have a crossover. The V8 needs it because it is odd-fire I believe, and because of that, it has a crossover stock.
MSP said:Also, the reason for a loss of power when the 05V6 is not crossed over is due to the scavenge effect the 05 V6 needs to produce power in each cylinder.. The info posted above by the previous 2 posters is false..
351CJ said:Almost ALL 90 degree V - V8s ever made are "even fire", including the Ford 4.6L V8.
Even fire means that EVERY cylinder fires at the same amount of crankshaft rotation.
You are confusing even firing with whether 2 consecutive fires occur on the same or the opposite cylinder bank. In the case of most American V8s even though there have consecutive fires on the same bank they occur at the exact same crankshaft rotation amount which is 90 degrees. This is an inherent feature of a 90 degree V8 with shared rod journals on the crankshafts.
Some V8s (like Ferrari V8s) have every consecutive cylinder fire on the opposite bank. This system is often referred to as having a 180 degree crank. You can even buy 180 degree cranks for Chevy small blocks. 180 degree cranks are not usually used in American V8s because they are harder to balance and generally favor high end power rather than low RPM torque and they did not work well with a single carburator on a manifold (Ferraris used 8 bbl carbs and later fuel injection with a separate inlet for each cylinder).
60 degree V6s are also inherently even firing - every 120 degrees (eg Ford 4.0 SOHC, 3.0L Duratech & Vulcan). 120 degree V6s as well as flat 6s are also inherently even firing. 90 degree V6s are not even firing unless split rod journal crankshafts are used (eg Ford 3.8L Windsor). When American 90 degree V6s first came out they were pretty much V8s with 2 cyliders missing so they had uneven firing orders. Later split rod jounal crankshafts were added to even the firing order.
5-SpeedStallion said:That was actually my quote... and obviously I had the wrong terminology, but I understand the principle of more than one cylinder firing on the same bank.
BTW, MSP, I changed my tune, in a way, because of all the V6's I've EVER heard, 05 or pre-05, w/ "performance" exhaust have sounded raspy. It seems as if yours doesn't, so I've now heard one that doesn't.
... Oh, and I'm glad we can be friends
not really ,,, we all love Mustangs / right?MSP said:You guys know how it is around here.. Once people disagree about 1 thing, its hard to agree on others...
rygenstormlocke said:This is all good information!
MSP, are you running duals or single, its hard to tell from your avatar. I'm about to go duals with GT take offs but want to make sure I do it right. My mechanic says not to go true duals on my ride due to back pressure. What kind of config are you running on your ride?
Does anyone have any input on the kits that are out on the market, JBA makes a Y pipe kit and true dual and Magnaflow makes a Y pipe as well.
Thanks.
rygenstormlocke said:This is all good information!
MSP, are you running duals or single, its hard to tell from your avatar. I'm about to go duals with GT take offs but want to make sure I do it right. My mechanic says not to go true duals on my ride due to back pressure. What kind of config are you running on your ride?
Does anyone have any input on the kits that are out on the market, JBA makes a Y pipe kit and true dual and Magnaflow makes a Y pipe as well.
Thanks.