Questions about building a 1965 race fastback

Sixty5cobra427 · Aug 27, 2007

I'm getting ready to start the conversion of my gt-350 clone over to a race car. I want the car to handle well and stop well, so I'm not concerned with staying true to the 1960s technology. I would like to go with a coilover setup and was wondering who has the best setups for the front and rear. I definitely want to go with a new k member and dont want to keep the leaf springs in the rear. I'm also considering going with Wilwood brakes unless anyone has any better suggestions.

Thanks,
Sam

iskwezm · Aug 27, 2007

Global West just came out with a new coil over set up, looks pretty nice.

CraigMBA · Aug 27, 2007

Before you do anything - answer this question.

Where are you going to run this car and under what sanctioning body rules?

Just an open track/driver education car?

NASA AI?

A vintage VARA legal piece?

Sixty5cobra427 · Aug 27, 2007

open track, hpde, etc. i dont want to do any competitive racing and i dont really want to deal with sanctioning bodies.

CraigMBA · Aug 28, 2007

The Griggs GT-40 setup is the best. The other kits are OK, but IMO for HPDE I don't think I'd do any of it.

If it were me, I'd spend the money on tires and track day fees.

Helmantel · Aug 28, 2007

I'd do what Graig suggests. If it's just for fun, than just start racing and upgrade what you don't like along the way.

If nothing else, you can compare before and after results. If you build the car first (without experience of what works or not), you spend a lot of time and money without really knowing if it's going to work.

Sixty5cobra427 · Aug 28, 2007

i was planning on doing just that but sticking with the suspension thats on the car is out of the question, its shot. the car has sat for about the past 15 years. i've been with my father in his factory 5 daytona for the past few years and now its time for my own car and i would like to stay competitive with him.

CraigMBA · Aug 28, 2007

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you want to keep up with your dad's FFR, go buy an FFR. It'll cost less and be quicker than your Mustang will ever be. A reasonably preped stock Miata will own one of our cars on the track, given similar drivers.

If you STILL want to do bolt on stuff, I'd call John at Opentracker and buy the roller upper and lower arms, articulated strut rod, roller bearing perches, whatever springs and shocks he recomends. You'll spend about $4K to get the high zoot bomb diggity stuff. The Griggs stuff is better, but you'll have to totally cut your car up to get it to work and it'll cost you around $12K

Google 2bav8 (the moderator here) and look at his car on his site. His car is a pretty good example of what you can do without taking the next step - building an all out tube chassis racer.

If you're in SoCal see you at the track.

65 fastback · Aug 28, 2007

Sixty5cobra427 said:
... i've been with my father in his factory 5 daytona for the past few years and now its time for my own car and i would like to stay competitive with him.

I'm not sure you are going to be competitive with you dad's Daytona Coupe, but here is what I would suggest in order of how I would approach it (I have posted this before in another thread).

1. Monty Carlo Bar and Export Brace - These are cheap, easy modifications that can be done in an afternoon and will box in the engine compartment and help to stiffen up the front end.

2. Upgrade to a 1" Front Sway Bar - another cheap, easy mod, that makes a noticable difference.

3. Upgrade your shocks, front and rear - KYB's if your on a budget, otherwise get Edelbrock IAS or Koni. Here is no place to save money, buy the best that you can afford.

4. 620 Front Springs and the Shelby drop - Upgrade to some aftermarket Upper Control Arms if your budget allows, either OpenTracker, Global West or TCP and increase the Shelby drop to 1-3/4" (recommended). The springs are cheap and the drop is free.

5. Adjust your rear ride height with some lowering blocks to match your new front end - cheap, almost free.

6. Now get some quality tires. If you don't already have them, get at least some 15" wheels, 225/50/15's will make a great tire. If you want and can afford, go ahead and go for some 17" with 235/40/17 front and 255/40/17 rear. Good quality tires are the biggest improvement that you can make to handling and stopping power of your car.

7. Add some subframe connectors - This is a crucial step in stiffing up the unibody chassis of a Mustang and will really help in the handling of the back end of the car.

8. Now is the time to upgrade your rear springs - I suggest 4.5, mid-eye leaf springs (you can fine adjust the mid-eyes with lowering blocks if you need). Also, add a quality shackle kit at this time to help control difflection.

The above recommendations will get your car set up pretty well and if you get into it further, consider:

Front Suspension
- Roller Bearing Lower Control Arms (OpenTracker, Global West or TCP)
- Adjustable Strut Rods ( StreetOrTrack, Global West or TCP)
- Roller Spring Perchs (OpenTracker)

Rear Suspension
- Maier Panhard Bar
- Traction Master underrider traction bars (upgraded with AFCO Springrods)

Good luck and keep us posted,
Tim

iapexl8r · Aug 28, 2007

A package deal is probably your best bet if you want to spend money. you can do like i do inexpensivly. I run a 65 fb with a very basic setup also run open track days only. Mine has the shelby upper controll arm drop, 620 # front springs stock upper and lower controll arms the kit to make the lower arm adjustable for the 2 deg of camber I like to run. Have a 1" front sway bar and a magna rear sway bar with 4 and a half leaf rear leaf springs that I got from delta bay. And suspension wise (except a monte carlo bar) thats about it. I also run granada front brakes with a race compound pad. With this set up I am able to get into the 1.30's (read 1.38) at wsir and have a total blast. I always say once your car is track opreational meaning it wont break start modifing the nut behind the steering wheel and keep smiling. Good luck chris

jason@gmachine · Aug 29, 2007

this is a little something you might want to look at.

http://www.gmachineracing.com/SLAYERpackage.html

If you want race quality call us, otherwise we will be overkill for you.

Jason

dodgestang · Aug 29, 2007

65 fastback said:
I'm not sure you are going to be competitive with you dad's Daytona Coupe, but here is what I would suggest in order of how I would approach it (I have posted this before in another thread).

1. Monty Carlo Bar and Export Brace - These are cheap, easy modifications that can be done in an afternoon and will box in the engine compartment and help to stiffen up the front end.

2. Upgrade to a 1" Front Sway Bar - another cheap, easy mod, that makes a noticable difference.

3. Upgrade your shocks, front and rear - KYB's if your on a budget, otherwise get Edelbrock IAS or Koni. Here is no place to save money, buy the best that you can afford.

4. 620 Front Springs and the Shelby drop - Upgrade to some aftermarket Upper Control Arms if your budget allows, either OpenTracker, Global West or TCP and increase the Shelby drop to 1-3/4" (recommended). The springs are cheap and the drop is free.

5. Adjust your rear ride height with some lowering blocks to match your new front end - cheap, almost free.

6. Now get some quality tires. If you don't already have them, get at least some 15" wheels, 225/50/15's will make a great tire. If you want and can afford, go ahead and go for some 17" with 235/40/17 front and 255/40/17 rear. Good quality tires are the biggest improvement that you can make to handling and stopping power of your car.

7. Add some subframe connectors - This is a crucial step in stiffing up the unibody chassis of a Mustang and will really help in the handling of the back end of the car.

8. Now is the time to upgrade your rear springs - I suggest 4.5, mid-eye leaf springs (you can fine adjust the mid-eyes with lowering blocks if you need). Also, add a quality shackle kit at this time to help control difflection.

The above recommendations will get your car set up pretty well and if you get into it further, consider:

Front Suspension
- Roller Bearing Lower Control Arms (OpenTracker, Global West or TCP)
- Adjustable Strut Rods ( StreetOrTrack, Global West or TCP)
- Roller Spring Perchs (OpenTracker)

Rear Suspension
- Maier Panhard Bar
- Traction Master underrider traction bars (upgraded with AFCO Springrods)

Good luck and keep us posted,
Tim

The only thing I would add to this excellent synopsis is to weld in front torque boxes

red65 · Aug 30, 2007

CraigMBA said:
Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you want to keep up with your dad's FFR, go buy an FFR. It'll cost less and be quicker than your Mustang will ever be.

Don't take this as chest-thumping (well, maybe a little), but my '65 gives the FFR Cobras a serious run for their money at open track events. Neither car is decisively faster (well, except the guy with the blown 347 Cobra that pulled me on the straight...). It's not an unreasonable expectation for a well-prepared '65 to be competitive with a kit car for similar (or even less) money, depending on all kinds of setup variables, of course, and the biggest variable of all - the nut behind the wheel. My two cents. Flame away.

CraigMBA · Aug 30, 2007

red65 said:
Don't take this as chest-thumping (well, maybe a little), but my '65 gives the FFR Cobras a serious run for their money at open track events. Neither car is decisively faster (well, except the guy with the blown 347 Cobra that pulled me on the straight...). It's not an unreasonable expectation for a well-prepared '65 to be competitive with a kit car for similar (or even less) money, depending on all kinds of setup variables, of course, and the biggest variable of all - the nut behind the wheel. My two cents. Flame away.

No, I think thats reasonable. Particularly at a DE event.

It is my experence that most drivers at DE events have 1-3 seconds a lap in themselves without touching anything on the car outside of the seatbelt and the keys..........ymmv.

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