quick question, loctite on spark plugs

RavenGT · May 25, 2005

well it happened to mine, this is just a ? here, not smart ass in anyway...do you think that the problem occurred because they installed the plug incorrectly, or crossthreaded it??

No, it was because the pre 03 2V heads were a crappy design, when it came to the plug threads. They were designed with only 4 threads around the plug, and in the case of the Lightnings, the increased cylinder pressure from the positive displacement blowers, were forcing the plugs to blow out, and take the threads with them.

The Loctite idea is not only assinine, but not true. The official fix from Ford was to helicoil the head and send the customer on their way. You add hightemp Loctite to a soft metal like aluminum and you are not a question of will it happen again, its a matter of when it will happen again.

Loctite cures the steel plug to the soft aluminum head, and the head will be the first metal to give in the case of failure.

I don't know Mr.Z28, but I know that he will NEVER put a wrench, or tube of loctite to my Lightning.

Joe

SilverGTV8 · May 25, 2005

Acutally Ford's stance on the issue is NO heil coils but a full head replacment.

kdanner · May 25, 2005

I have access to fmcdealer.com. I just entered my Lightning VIN into OASIS, and just like I knew would happen, not a single TSB or SSM about using loctite on plug threads. That is all.

SMRcalidiv · May 25, 2005

i own a stang not a lightning

RavenGT · May 25, 2005

SilverGTV8 said:
Acutally Ford's stance on the issue is NO heil coils but a full head replacment.

The 3 Lightnings that I know of personally, here in Central Florida, were told and repaired by their dealership using the helicoil method. If they are replacing the heads now, they woke up and are doing the right thing.

joe

CanadaStang · May 25, 2005

SMRcalidiv said:
well it happened to mine, this is just a ? here, not smart ass in anyway...do you think that the problem occurred because they installed the plug incorrectly, or crossthreaded it??

That's such a tough call. Any number of things may have caused the plug to blow out, some may have been caused by the dealer, some not:
1) Plugs torqued too tight, damaging the threads
2) Plugs torqued too tight in a previous plug change, causing threads to be damaged upon removal
3) Plugs previously installed with no anti-seize, causing thread damage when removed.
4) Dealer removing plugs from hot engine and damaging threads
5) Improper torque, causing plug to back out.
6) Plug previously cross threaded, when plug is removed, the threads come with it.
7) Plug cross threaded upon installation, causing blow out.

n0v8or · May 25, 2005

If you visit some of the F150 furums, you will find blown spark plug threads that run 8-10 pages. And that's just the recent threads. Evidently, the problem had been much more widespread on Ford trucks.

The prevailing theory over there is that the plugs do not rotate out 4 or 5 full turns over a period of time. Rather, once they have rotated 20 degrees or so, enough play develops that they move up and down just a few microinches with each cylinder burn. Just as the Colorado River eventually created the Grand Canyon, even that barely perceptable motion will eventually wear away the aluminum threads. A lot of the truckers report a semi-smooth cylinder wall where the spark plug threads in the head used to be (which is why the new plug doesn't stay in very long).

With the blue Loctite, I would be more concerned with residue that remains behind on the head threads after I remove the plug 20K miles later. In other words, can you ever successfully install a replacement set of plugs after using Loctite on the previous set? I've used it on exhaust manifold bolts and could remove them OK 3 years later with WD-40 and a 1/2" drive socket wrench. However, this was a steel to steel application, not steel to aluminum.

RandyStinchcomb · May 26, 2005

this is a very bad idea, using loc-tite on the plugs. maybe its ok for using wth platinum plugs on Expedition/Navigators, F series and Vans that require a plug change at @100K (and by then its outta' warranty and comes out of the owners pocket)but not on a Mustang, T-birds and the like as most guys like to "tinker" wth ther cars and doing this is just a plain BAD IDEA. its only going to create major problems down the road. ie guys using a whole bottle of loc-tite on 8 plugs, not cleaning the treads right, using the wrong type, residue from the sealer getting into the cylinders, you get the idea. posting this info on the net is a Very Bad Idea. you got this info from Fords "hot-line" right? this info is a "band-aid" solution brought to you by the same engineers that mis-designed the head in the first place, so you are just compounding the problem. typical Ford Tech soultion, finding a short-cut to an issue and not re-solving the problem. also, dont throw that "master tech" crap around either, that just means you can take and pass test on Ford Starr and has no real meaning on your personal skills. Ive seen so-called Masters who have problems changing light bulbs. yes this is my first post, won't be my last Im sure.

Randy Stinchcomb
Performance Parts Manager
Liberty Ford of Baltimore Maryland
410-655-2000 parts ext 5618

jstreet0204 · May 26, 2005

RandyStinchcomb said:
yes this is my first post, won't be my last Im sure.

Newbie!

Just kidding...

Mustang92 · May 26, 2005

SMRcalidiv said:
well it happened to mine, this is just a ? here, not smart ass in anyway...do you think that the problem occurred because they installed the plug incorrectly, or crossthreaded it??

How do you know it backed out? If the plug came out with the theads attached that is due to the poor head design as Raven (Joe) stated. I'm just curious how all of a sudden all these cases of plugs blowing out of the head and taking the threads with them was linked to the spark plug backing out of the hole.

Bill

RandyStinchcomb · May 26, 2005

Mustang92 said:
How do you know it backed out? If the plug came out with the theads attached that is due to the poor head design as Raven (Joe) stated. I'm just curious how all of a sudden all these cases of plugs blowing out of the head and taking the threads with them was linked to the spark plug backing out of the hole.

Bill

Bill, one thing that it could be and I didn't want to post this up in my first thread as I didn't want to come-off as a "know-it-all" but 1999, 2000 and some 2001 5.4 Windsors had the sparkplugs cross-threaded in the heads from the factory, call it quality control

RandyStinchcomb · May 26, 2005

jstreet0204 said:
Newbie!

Just kidding...

yeah, who'da thunk-it me a noobie

HMSPORT · May 26, 2005

I worked at Ford dealers for over 13 years. I have never seen a TSB for using lock-tite on spark plugs. Do Not Use It!
The problem on the earlier years 5.4's was a machining problem with the plug threads. Basically, there wasn't enough threads for the plug...hence blowing out the plugs and pulling the threads with it. Under warranteee, we would replace the head. If it was a cp job, the cutomer had the choice of purchasing a new head or we would send the org. out and have it heli-coiled.
MikeZ28 can you give me the SSM #, I can look it up at the dealership.
As for the anti-seize, if you use it make sure that you do not put to much on. If any gets into the combustion chamber or on the eletrode, it will cause detonation. Just my .02 to tell help everyone.

CanadaStang · May 26, 2005

RandyStinchcomb said:
yeah, who'da thunk-it me a noobie

Randy, it's great to see you over here, {you too Bill } Very much appreciate you guys taking the time to add your thoughts to this .

RandyStinchcomb · May 26, 2005

CanadaStang said:
Randy, it's great to see you over here, {you too Bill } Very much appreciate you guys taking the time to add your thoughts to this .

not a problem, thanks

woo-hoo, 5th post

HMSPORT · May 26, 2005

Randy, you are So Correct about the "Master Tech,triple masters",etc. There is a big difference being book/test smart and on hand knowledge/experience.
Sorry for going off base of this thread.

rjstaaf · May 26, 2005

RandyStinchcomb said:
not a problem, thanks

woo-hoo, 5th post

Hey Randy stop playing around over here and answer my PM at MD

RandyStinchcomb · May 26, 2005

rjstaaf said:
Hey Randy stop playing around over here and answer my PM at MD

oopps, gotta' run business calls

Mike97gt · May 26, 2005

SMRcalidiv said:
can i get in on this legal action? my car is the one with all the posts about the plug just getting blown out of the head. now i have to buy a new head 350, kit 115, and pay the damn dealer 600 for labor to get this fixed, all because they put a damn helicoil in there the first time they f'd it up. oh and dearborn says the only people that can give you official tsb info is the dealership, but you know that if you are asking about a tsb in the first place its because the dealer is also gonna be at fault if you prove your case...nice. i guess i'll locktite my plugs for the new head when it goes on, and dont talk ish to mike he's just trying to help and obviously is more in the "ford game" than most of us.

helicoil is a bad idea it can cause preignition. atleast thats what the TSB says.

SMRcalidiv · May 26, 2005

Mustang92 said:
How do you know it backed out? If the plug came out with the theads attached that is due to the poor head design as Raven (Joe) stated. I'm just curious how all of a sudden all these cases of plugs blowing out of the head and taking the threads with them was linked to the spark plug backing out of the hole.

Bill

whoa..this is why i posted my disclaimer..i was simply asking a question. my plug and coil were just laying on the intake manifold, i picked them up with my hand and no tools, it even broke the plastic ear off the coil when it shot out. and no, i didnt say there were threads still on the plug, the first couple threads on the plug were jacked up though, and apparantly the threads in the head were f'd too.

quick question, loctite on spark plugs

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