RE: i think its time to rebuild the motor!!

6FIVE_STANG · Jan 27, 2007

Like i said before, when starting the car i get a cloud of white smoke and then it clears away, but then after 5 min. of warming up, when i rev pretty high i get some more white smoke! what does this mean? is it time for a rebuild?

Pbum5 · Jan 27, 2007

Need more info.

How many miles on the motor?

Could be worn valve guides or piston rings.

If it is a high mileage motor then yeah, it might be time for a rebuild.

BullittStangV8 · Jan 27, 2007

sounds like oils getting into the combustion chamber. My bet is rings are worn out.

6FIVE_STANG · Jan 27, 2007

the point im tryn to get to is that i want to rebuild it so i get add some fast parts!!!
......I know theres lots of people out there who have had there engine(s) rebuilt. I know there LOTS of steps during this process, but what are the main steps i need to do for a rebuild. during the rebuild i also want to add a few "go-fast parts". i want a (street/strip) at least 325hp!! Saying that, what parts and things do i need to do to the motor to achieve this goal??...

ratio411 · Jan 27, 2007

Are you sure it's 'white' smoke?

Oil is 'blue-gray', pure 'white' is usually steam or water smoke.
You may have a condensation issue or weak head gasket around a water or steam hole.
If it is oil smoke, then I tend to agree with the previous posts about oil getting by the valves.
Dave

ratio411 · Jan 27, 2007

6FIVE_STANG said:
the point im tryn to get to is that i want to rebuild it so i get add some fast parts!!!
......I know theres lots of people out there who have had there engine(s) rebuilt. I know there LOTS of steps during this process, but what are the main steps i need to do for a rebuild. during the rebuild i also want to add a few "go-fast parts". i want a (street/strip) at least 325hp!! Saying that, what parts and things do i need to do to the motor to achieve this goal??...

Oh, okay...
You need a rebuild!

Store the stock engine away for future resto.
Get a 302 block and 331 stroker kit to put into it.
Use either some 69-73 Windsor heads that have been built by a previous owner or some decent aluminum heads. The reason I say to look for W heads that have already been ported is because to do all the machine work and porting you need after you buy the heads, would cost as much as some aluminum heads.

If you got the dough, some AFRs would be real nice.

Dave

6FIVE_STANG · Jan 28, 2007

ratio411 said:
Oh, okay...
You need a rebuild!

Store the stock engine away for future resto.
Get a 302 block and 331 stroker kit to put into it.
Use either some 69-73 Windsor heads that have been built by a previous owner or some decent aluminum heads. The reason I say to look for W heads that have already been ported is because to do all the machine work and porting you need after you buy the heads, would cost as much as some aluminum heads.

If you got the dough, some AFRs would be real nice.

Dave

cant i just get a kit for my 289??.... i thought they were the same block!

GoinBroke · Jan 28, 2007

Go roller for the extra hp! You can usually find a good 5.0 core for fairly cheap and even a stock 5.0 will make your 65 hard to find traction. Build the bottom end for strength add a decent cam and aluminum heads and you will make good power.

1320stang · Jan 28, 2007

Does the white smoke smell sweet? If so, you likely have a blown head gasket or a head gasket or intake gasket failure like ratio said. I would pull the intake and inspect the gaskets for failure, if they check out okay, then pull the heads. If you can't find the problem there, then continue with your plan. If replacing gaskets fixes you up, then DO IT!!!..... THEN go find you a block and build the engine at your leisure while you continue to enjoy your car. I know from experience, things tend to cascade, resist the temptation.

chemeng · Jan 28, 2007

Got an 89 5.0 roller core for 150, added a 331 stroker kit for 900. GT40 aluminum heads and a Lazer cam. Not the optimum setup, but fit my budget. Am extremely pleased with the results. Once I reach 500 miles I plan on hitting the dyno and posting the results.
BTW - did the entire buildup (parts, labor and install) for a hair under 3,000.

ratio411 · Jan 28, 2007

The only reason I say to save the 289 in a corner untouched is to save some value for your car in the future.
If you store it up, leaving it intact from pan to air cleaner, manifold to manifold, you will be much happier 10-15 years from now, or whenever...
You will kick yourself hard in the future if you go and bore the original block and start making mods to the stuff.
Just look at eBay and figure how much that stuff is going to cost in the future to replace when you try to do a full on original resto. Or how much it will mean to your heirs or the next owner if you kept all that stuff bolted together and safe.

Just a thought.
Use your block if you want.
Dave

6FIVE_STANG · Jan 28, 2007

ok.. i decided buy a 302. ive gone on ebay and seen lots of blocks from different years and prices. i dont know much about buying new blocks, so what should i be looking for when im going to buy a new block.... for example, year, price, ect.....

ratio411 · Jan 28, 2007

The earlier blocks (68-72) are going to be strongest.
However, they do not have the ability to just drop in a hydraulic roller.
If that is what you want...
The later blocks (86-on) will have the thinnest webs.
They can accept (most) a hydraulic roller without any retrofit kit.
The later blocks will also NOT have provision for clutch linkage.

All of these ins and outs can be overcome though.
There are kits made to drop a roller in an early block.
There are also kits made to mount clutch linkage to newer blocks.
If you don't have a clutch or particularly want to run a roller cam,
Then things are easy.
Personally, I would find a roller block with a virgin bore.
Do all the right machine work, and go from there.
The roller blocks are known to split from the thin webs,
however, this is under the most extreme conditions.
If nitrous, blower, turbo, or some other extreme is not in the cards,
they are strong enough.
Another big plus IMO, for a street driven engine, is the one pc rear main seal
in the later blocks.
You have to use an early timing cover and retrofit some parts to use a
mechanical fuel pump on a later block as well.

Go for a std bore hyd roller block and mod it to suit your car.
If you like the idea of an older block, again, look for std bore.
An older block will look more original if you want an original look.
Good luck
Dave

Edit: Any HO block should be roller cam ready. Trucks and cars went a little longer before they got roller cams, but many got roller blocks even though they had flat cams.
My 90 PU had a roller block with flat cam. So any truck 90 or later should have a roller block. My 89 Crown Vic engine had a roller cam, but it is a standard firing order rather than the W order of the HO engines. Try to find a virgin 86-92 short block HO and you get all the best stuff. They even came with forged pistons. This doesn't help much if you have to bore it, but if not, they are gravy.

6FIVE_STANG · Jan 28, 2007

Well, i've been thinkin,.. and if im going to buy a new block i should just go for the 351!!! i found a guy whos selling a 351W from a 1977 station wagon for $150o.b.o! im thinking i should get it and rebuild it, what do you guys think?... is it a good buy or what year should i get? i need some help,

ratio411 · Jan 28, 2007

That's a good price for a core 351.
The heads that year are junk.

The best thing about a 351w is that you can stroke it to 393 for only slightly more cost than a stock rebuild!
The new cast stroker crank is around 300 bux if you look for it.
Then the 302 pistons used are cheaper than 351 pistons.
If you figure you don't have to clean up and turn the original crank, and save dough on the pistons, you get the stroker for dirt cheap!
An engine that size though, definately needs good heads.
Dave

6FIVE_STANG · Jan 28, 2007

so should i give the guy a call and pick it up?... is the windsor better or the cleavland? i dont want to regret buying!.

ratio411 · Jan 28, 2007

Go for a Windsor.
The Cleveland fits, but the stuff is expensive and limited.
Windsor stuff is cheap and everywhere.
Not knocking Clevelands. Luv 'em myself, just stating facts.
Dave

6FIVE_STANG · Jan 28, 2007

ok, so now i need to know what are the best years for getting a windsor?.. or do people usually pick up any year.
what years has more options and such?

6FIVE_STANG · Jan 28, 2007

anyone?...

ratio411 · Jan 29, 2007

You won't get a roller block unless you find one of the last engines built after mid-95. If that is what you are asking...

The earlier blocks are stronger, just like the other engines.
A 69-72 block are considered best considering nickel content.
It's not a huge deal, but good to know that some earlier Windsors were shorter deck than some others. There is a general year range that has the short deck, but the casting number is the only sure indicator without measuring.
I dont' have the numbers handy.
9.48" vs 9.508"... About .020" to .030" difference.
No big deal, but if you are being accurate and doing a quality build, you should figure it in. Then again, even the 'tall' block may have been decked some time in the last 35 years and you wouldn't know by part number.

The 77 Windsor engine is fine if you plan on aftermarket heads.
If you intend to just get a Windsor with the best stock heads made and go from there, then you should look for a 69 4v engine.
The 69-73 2v engines are a VERY close second, head wise.
They just have 2cc larger chambers, yet have the larger valves and ports of the 4vs.
You will have to port the exhaust though. They have large ports with large restrictions that need to get gone.
Dave

RE: i think its time to rebuild the motor!!

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