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Really bad OBD I problem! Please help!

  • Thread starter Thread starter flyboy_323
  • Start date Start date Oct 24, 2004

flyboy_323

New Member
Oct 13, 2004
57
0
0
San Luis Obispo, CA
Oct 24, 2004
#1
  • Oct 24, 2004
  • #1
Okay here's the deal:

Last night a few of my buddies and I got together to install my summit racing cat-back exhaust. So we unbolt, cut, and remove the stock cat-back. We then start the stang w/o the mufflers and only w/ the headers and h-pipe on. It sounded so good that we rewarded ourselves by taking a late night trip in the mufflerless stang to Applebee’s to get some food. The car drove great; it was loud, reved freer, sounded like a mustang should and felt like butter. So after we come back out, I get into my car and start her up. The car starts and the tach keeps oscillating between 400 RPMs and 700 RPMS at idle. As soon as I try to give it a little gas, the car wants to stall and die on me. If I give it a lot of gas the car hesitates and drops to 400 RPM and then climbs up to where ever it should be.

By this point, I was pretty sure that it was the O2 sensor sending the computer wacked readings because of the much better/faster exhaust flow through the cats. So I let the engine idle for 5 min to let the computer adjust to the new settings. Still stalled. I restarted my baby and let it idle for 3 min. Same problem. Then I pulled the positive battery cable and let it sit for a while and restarted it and let it idle for a little. Still ran like s**t.

After I did all that I limped my stang home. under acceleration, she would sometimes cut the engine out momentarily at about 3500 RPM or so. The exhaust smelled like the mixture was running rich. And needless to say the check engine light was on. I also made sure the O2 sensors were plugged in tightly.

So, is it an O2 sensor problem? If it is, then why wouldn't the computer adjust to the new settings or worst case go into the closed loop mode or "safe" mode? What can I do at this point? I need some welding work done a my exhaust shop, so it might be a couple days before I can do that and I'd like to be able to drive my stang w/o mufflers until then...and it's really bothering me that it's not running well like this.

Thanks for your help in advance!
 
W

wytstang

Mustang Master
Mar 14, 2004
4,988
4
78
Summerville,SC missing South Fl. weather :(
Oct 24, 2004
#2
  • Oct 24, 2004
  • #2
First off all driving with out muffs bad idea street/strip car need back pressure that is created by the muffs to perform good also you can burn up your valves by running w/o muffs too ( I forgot what exactly happend to the valves but I know it's not good). You have a C/E light run codes and it will tell you what's wrong. Untill then don't run w/o muffs on.
 

flyboy_323

New Member
Oct 13, 2004
57
0
0
San Luis Obispo, CA
Oct 24, 2004
#3
  • Oct 24, 2004
  • #3
wytstang said:
First off all driving with out muffs bad idea street/strip car need back pressure that is created by the muffs to perform good also you can burn up your valves by running w/o muffs too ( I forgot what exactly happend to the valves but I know it's not good). You have a C/E light run codes and it will tell you what's wrong. Untill then don't run w/o muffs on.
Click to expand...

That's a good point, I didn't think of that. Maybe at idle maybe the engine is sucking air back into the system? I'll put on the new mufflers and see what happens. Also, does anyone know where I can get more of those rubber hangers? The dealersip wants me to by an entire exhaust system to them for $900.
Thanks
 

S/CBlack95GT

New Member
Apr 6, 2003
2,018
0
0
Tampa Palms, FL
Oct 24, 2004
#4
  • Oct 24, 2004
  • #4
You need to see what the codes are saying. Just removing the muffs should do nothing. You still have a ton of backpressure with the cats in place.

I ran my car with no cats and no muffs and it ran exactly the same. Most likely the problem is a coincidence or you damaged a wire somewhere. Also, make sure you disconnect the negative battery terminal, never the positive first.

No backpressure will not burn the valves either. Thats just a bad rumor started by someone that doesn't know what they are saying. Probably some ricer.
 
W

wytstang

Mustang Master
Mar 14, 2004
4,988
4
78
Summerville,SC missing South Fl. weather :(
Oct 24, 2004
#5
  • Oct 24, 2004
  • #5
check www.50resto.com I'm pretty sure they have them.
 
9

95cobra68camaro

New Member
Sep 23, 2004
15
0
0
N.Y.---------
Oct 24, 2004
#6
  • Oct 24, 2004
  • #6
this may sound stupid but it happened to me, about 3 weeks after i installed my MAC CAI,(which didnt really fit) i came off of a red light normal and then all the sudden the car stalled i strated it back up and it owuld do exactly what u said idle between llike 300-6-700 if id floor board the car it would barely run, it turns out that the rubber coupling came offright behind the MAF, so the motor weas sucking in air w/o it being metered, probaly not ur cuase but worth a check
 
W

wytstang

Mustang Master
Mar 14, 2004
4,988
4
78
Summerville,SC missing South Fl. weather :(
Oct 24, 2004
#7
  • Oct 24, 2004
  • #7
S/CBlack95GT said:
No backpressure will not burn the valves either. Thats just a bad rumor started by someone that doesn't know what they are saying. Probably some ricer.
Click to expand...
I was told this by a shop of Ford technicians at a Ford dealership I used to work for and I seriously doubt they would have mess lead me.
 

flyboy_323

New Member
Oct 13, 2004
57
0
0
San Luis Obispo, CA
Oct 25, 2004
#8
  • Oct 25, 2004
  • #8
Ok, so I found out what was wrong and I thought that I would share it w/ all you guys. My friend brought over his ford OBD I code reader and it said that it was reading low voltage across the MAF and something about the fuel pump. So I cleaned the MAF and the idle air control motor out with carb cleaner. I reinstalled everything and it still ran really bad. So I took the MAF out of my buddy's '95 5.0 and put it in mine and it ran great. So it looks like the MAF died and it was completely coincidental to me installing a new exhaust system. So now im in the market for a new MAF....any suggestions?

Thanks a lot for your suggestions/help!
 
W

wytstang

Mustang Master
Mar 14, 2004
4,988
4
78
Summerville,SC missing South Fl. weather :(
Oct 25, 2004
#9
  • Oct 25, 2004
  • #9
Pro-m 80mm some people have had problems with the cnl kits for our cars. Some have reported that they get a lean condition when using that one.
 
2

2xturbo

Founding Member
Jun 16, 2002
70
0
0
Oct 25, 2004
#10
  • Oct 25, 2004
  • #10
The 'you have to have mufflers for backpressure' adage was true back ion the days before unleaded gas, fuel injection, and hardened/stainless exhaust valve seats and stainless exhaust valves. The lead in the leaded gas would a) reduce exhaust temps some, and b) to some extent plate out onto the valve seats and help seal irregularities in the seat/valve contact surface. Nowadays, this is not a problem as the materials are more advanced than they were back then.

If you're running a bone-stock 5.0 in your SN95, you can run with cats and no mufflers or mufflers and no cats with no worry of burning your exhaust valves IF (important) you're not lean anywhere in the fuel/RPM curve. Ran mine w/ mufflers & no cats from 300 miles to 100K miles with no problems. If you've gone to upgraded heads with hardened/SS valve seats and SS valves, you can run open pipe as long as you're (again) not lean in the fuel/RPM curve. A/F ratio is the key, not backpressure.

2x
 

flyboy_323

New Member
Oct 13, 2004
57
0
0
San Luis Obispo, CA
Oct 25, 2004
#11
  • Oct 25, 2004
  • #11
wytstang said:
Pro-m 80mm some people have had problems with the cnl kits for our cars. Some have reported that they get a lean condition when using that one.
Click to expand...

The one concern that I have is that in the future, I'd like to swap out my intake manifold and get bigger injectors, so if I buy a MAF sensor now, I'd have to recalibrate it for the new injectors. How much is a recalibration? Am I better off just finding a used stock MAF?
 
W

wytstang

Mustang Master
Mar 14, 2004
4,988
4
78
Summerville,SC missing South Fl. weather :(
Oct 25, 2004
#12
  • Oct 25, 2004
  • #12
flyboy_323 said:
The one concern that I have is that in the future, I'd like to swap out my intake manifold and get bigger injectors, so if I buy a MAF sensor now, I'd have to recalibrate it for the new injectors. How much is a recalibration? Am I better off just finding a used stock MAF?
Click to expand...
That's exacty why I haven't upgraded my mass air I think it's like $100 to get it recalibrated (again I think). If you can find a good used one go for it. Then when the time comes do it one time it's cheaper that way. I don't know how much of a gain upgrading a mass air would do for you right now maybe some one can jump in a give there .02.
 

BlackVert

15 Year Member
Oct 3, 2003
5,589
9
98
Bethesda, MD
Oct 25, 2004
#13
  • Oct 25, 2004
  • #13
flyboy_323 said:
The one concern that I have is that in the future, I'd like to swap out my intake manifold and get bigger injectors, so if I buy a MAF sensor now, I'd have to recalibrate it for the new injectors. How much is a recalibration? Am I better off just finding a used stock MAF?
Click to expand...
i was looking for a used stock maf housing (the plastic thing that the meter sits in), and i couldn't find anything. it is like $400 at the dealership. i hope you have better luck finding one than i did.
 

SN95StangMan

New Member
Jul 5, 2003
1,292
0
0
Lynwood, CA
Oct 25, 2004
#14
  • Oct 25, 2004
  • #14
If you buy a Pro-M MAF, you can buy a pro-m optimizer to calibrate your maf if you get larger injectors. It costs about 150 bucks, but it's probably not much more than sending your maf in to get recalibrated, and you can use it more than once.

If you want a stock maf/housing PM me.
 
2

2xturbo

Founding Member
Jun 16, 2002
70
0
0
Oct 29, 2004
#15
  • Oct 29, 2004
  • #15
I know some people have had issues with C&L MAFs, but you have to admit they're easy to tweak for changes in injectors. I bought their MAF set up for 19 lb injectors a while back, before I knew what size injectors I was going to use. I also bought an array of inserts for 24, 30, 36, and 42 lb injectors ($20 each). I only used it with the 19s before I took the car down for mods, but when it's back up I'll be ready.
 
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