retrofitting abs

Soaring1 · Aug 30, 2007

bnickel said:
make sure to post a progress thread. i'm very interested to see the results.

And the cost not only in parts but labor. I'm thinking thousands.

bnickel · Aug 30, 2007

Soaring1 said:
And the cost not only in parts but labor. I'm thinking thousands.

how do you quantify labor costs when you do all the work yourself? the cost to do just the ABS with no consideration of the other parts would indeed be very expensive, but if you're already adding the 4 wheels disc brakes then the cost of the rest for the rest of the system shouldn't be that much more. a used abs controller from an SN-95 mustang and the wheel speed sensors and some brake lines and a few electrical pieces, (switches, lights, connectors etc.) it could all be done for less than $1000, including the brakes if you work it right.

gonzothegreat · Aug 30, 2007

I think you can get cobra rotors with the ABS rings build in, I think.

Grabber70Mach · Aug 30, 2007

I thought that the ABS exciter ring was on the hub that the rotor attaches to.

bnickel · Aug 30, 2007

zincyellow said:
I thought that the ABS exciter ring was on the hub that the rotor attaches to.

depends on the car, some have it on the hub some have it pressed on the rotor, don't know for sure which way it is on the SN-95 stangs though.

CraigMBA · Aug 31, 2007

There are several guys over at Corner Carvers who have put ABS on cars that they really didn't belong on and made them work. They make it sound pretty easy.

The tone ring is on the hub, BTW.

gonzothegreat · Aug 31, 2007

Craig, do you have some links?

Rusty67 · Aug 31, 2007

I can't believe someone posted this. I came up with the idea to do this on my 67 a few months ago and I've come up with a simple way of doing it, if you use an 8.8" of course. So I think we can all agree that puting the 8.8" in would take care of the rear and be an upgrade for those with 8"ers. But how are you going to get the front taken care of ? Well, I think I've figured out a way to make this work. If you used the front hub assembly offf of an SN95 car but changed the bearing in there so that it had the correct OD for the hub and the correct ID for what ever spindle you are using, you would have the tone ring needed for the front.

I havn't tried doing this at all yet of course (except for finding that the bearing on the SN95 hub isn't the right size for the 67 spindle pin). I actually do have a spare set of spindles for a 67 and I have 1 spare front hub for a 2000 Mustang. If I took them both to a bearing shop I'm sure I could find a bearing that would fit both. After that, I'd imagine I might need to have some pieces machines to retain the hub properly and I would then have to worry about rotor spacing for the brakes but I think that is something that can be taken care of without too much work. It would also make it cheaper to replace the front rotors because you wouldn't be buying a new hub every time.

I've put some thought into it. Can't even think about working on it until I get through with this wrestling season.

NasaGT · Aug 31, 2007

Rusty67 said:
If you used the front hub assembly offf of an SN95 car but changed the bearing in there so that it had the correct OD for the hub and the correct ID for what ever spindle you are using, you would have the tone ring needed for the front.

This is exactly what I had been thinking as well. I'm going to try to find a way to mount the rear rings on my 9" axels instead of using an 8.8.

As for soaring1's cost expectations, I spent a little time on ebay last night, here are the "buy it now" prices, which are always on the high end:

ABS unit: $45-50 (1 needed)
Sensors: $25-35 each (4 needed)
Front hub assembly: $50 (2 needed)
Rear exciter ring: $40 (2 needed)

Worse case total from ebay (minus shipping) is about $370. I'm bettting that you can do much better than that at a u-pull it yard, and all of the components would be from the same car (hopefully).

Obviously you need calipers, rotors, lines, and brackets and a prop valve. But if you're already doing a brake upgrade, then you've already planned on spending some coin. As bnickel said, if you do it yourself there's no labor cost. I'm guessing the grand total will be in the neighborhood of $1200 or so.

I'm just starting to buy parts, so it'll be a while before I start assembling.

CraigMBA · Aug 31, 2007

gonzothegreat said:
Craig, do you have some links?

http://www.corner-carvers.com/

The forum is currently down, you'll have to do a search.

The search engine sucks over there so I suggest you search the word "search" for pointers first.

That forum is pure gold when it comes to tech of this sort, but like pure gold, you have to dig for it. Nobody is gonna give you an inch there.

Rusty67 · Aug 31, 2007

If you figure out how to mount the tone rings on a 9" axle and it all fits then that is awesome. I don't know if that will work because I think the diameter of the axles are different and I don't know if there is space for the tone rings or not. If the diameter of the axles are different you could provably have the tone rings machined out to a larger diameter or have circular press fit shims made to make up the different if the 9" axle is smaller. I don't personally understand why people think ABS is so impossible to put into a classic. The biggest hurdle I see is the front tone rings.

bnickel · Aug 31, 2007

Rusty67 said:
If you figure out how to mount the tone rings on a 9" axle and it all fits then that is awesome. I don't know if that will work because I think the diameter of the axles are different and I don't know if there is space for the tone rings or not. If the diameter of the axles are different you could provably have the tone rings machined out to a larger diameter or have circular press fit shims made to make up the different if the 9" axle is smaller. I don't personally understand why people think ABS is so impossible to put into a classic. The biggest hurdle I see is the front tone rings.

i think most people believe that they have to rob the entire computer and wiring and the EFI and all the stuff that goes with it from a donor car to get the ABS. also there is the difference in the way the new car is setup compared to the classic but the front/rear weight bias is close enough that it should work ok.

CraigMBA · Aug 31, 2007

The weight bias actually is less important on an ABS system because the pump will pulse the wheels individually.

That doesn't mean you should ignore it or get cute with mixing parts, but the computer calculating wheel speed doesn't care how much weight is or isn't on it.

In this case, technology is great!

66Runt · Sep 1, 2007

Rusty67 · Sep 1, 2007

That grigs setup looks oddly familiar. From the picture it looks like they are using an SN95 front hub.

CraigMBA · Sep 1, 2007

I've seen a lot of failures over the years on spindles, but they've all been on six cylinder cars and all failed in parking lots going through pot holes.

I've never seen a V-8 spindle that failed. Ever. In any application. I've seen shock towers fall apart and the spindles twist the ears off of struts on SN95s but never a failed spindle.

Has anyone seen a spindle fail in person?

bnickel · Sep 2, 2007

CraigMBA said:
I've seen a lot of failures over the years on spindles, but they've all been on six cylinder cars and all failed in parking lots going through pot holes.

I've never seen a V-8 spindle that failed. Ever. In any application. I've seen shock towers fall apart and the spindles twist the ears off of struts on SN95s but never a failed spindle.

Has anyone seen a spindle fail in person?

once on a 60's chevy truck, snapped the pin right at the upright, snapped it clean too, have no idea what happened but the guy said he was just driving down the road and hit a bump and snap!!!!

gonzothegreat · Sep 2, 2007

66Runt said:

What's that disc? a cobra disc?

CraigMBA · Sep 2, 2007

bnickel said:
once on a 60's chevy truck, snapped the pin right at the upright, snapped it clean too, have no idea what happened but the guy said he was just driving down the road and hit a bump and snap!!!!

That's how I've seen all the failures happen, and I think we broke a spindle on my '58 Ford pickup the same way.

Those are Cobra brakes on a Griggs front end, yes?

66Runt · Sep 2, 2007

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