Please back up your claim with dyno numbers.
madmike-it's the fact that if I have an inspection sticker, that should be enough. I shouldn't have to continually prove my car is street legal.
Roadside emmisions testing
- Thread starter darthcual
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madmike-it's the fact that if I have an inspection sticker, that should be enough. I shouldn't have to continually prove my car is street legal.
What part of the emissions system is costing you horsepower? The smog (air) pump? maybe 2-5 hp. The rest of the emissions system outside of catalytic converters is just weight, and not much of that. Modern catalytic converter do not cost you HP until you get to the 450 whp mark and then by only 5 hp or so. Having a extensive background in emissions and emissions repair, most emissions controls enhance engine performance. In fact most of the emissions controls on modern car has to do with evaporative emissions, and these have zero bearing on performance.
Modern emmissions aren't on or a part of 20 plus year old cars. Again I'm not arguing for or against pollution control. But don't come in spouting numbers if you haven't gained a baseline with and then without. Until you've done that your speculating or going by what youve heard/read. My old 93 picked up 11 peak hp with an after market exhaust no cats/no smog pump. If I had tuned/changed the fuel pressure it may have gained more. Stock heads, cam, and intake. 5 hp is 5 hp when your trying to squeeze every last ounce of power.
On the Srt4 just going to a catless down pipe, no other mods picked up 18 torque and 14 hp.
You may believe what you want but I've seen the proof in the pudding so to speak.
On the Srt4 just going to a catless down pipe, no other mods picked up 18 torque and 14 hp.
You may believe what you want but I've seen the proof in the pudding so to speak.
And how much of that gain on the 20 plus year old Mustang was due to the 20 plus year mufflers and not the cats? Or maybe the cats were somewhat restrictive because they were 20 plus years old. You can pick up 10 plus HP just by taking out worn out spark plugs and putting new ones in. And your loss of the smog pump had very little to do with the 11 "peak" hp that was picked up.
The SRT-4 Neon responded because it had a turbo, and turbo's hate backpressure, period.
The SRT-4 Neon responded because it had a turbo, and turbo's hate backpressure, period.
Whoever owned my Mustang before me decided it would be cool to have cherry bomb glass packs welded in place of the mufflers. One day I noticed I only had water vapor coming out of one of the tail pipes. I ordered a MAC cat back and o/r h-pipe and when I removed my stock exhaust I found that the glass packs had rusted out on the inside and had shoved the fiberglass packing materials up over the axle in the exhaust pipe causing a huge restriction. After the new exhaust it felt like I gained 30 horsepower...
not sure how that applies to the discussion topic, but whatever... f**k you if you have a problem with it... lolz
not sure how that applies to the discussion topic, but whatever... f**k you if you have a problem with it... lolz
That contradicts your previous statement that cats aren't restrictive. They can corrode, become clogged. They definately restrict a turbo charged vehicle. The dyno sheet on the old stang is long gone with the car. I do still have the one for the Neon tho. If I can find it I will post it up.
Still have my catted xpipe. It weighs about 30lbs where as the catless is about ten.
Bottom line is when you're trying to go fast in a straight line down the track or on the street, every bit of power you can squeeze and weight you can drop is going to help you.
BOT- I have a buddy with a Camaro SS no cats no smog that says he goes by one of the roadside emmissions devices nearly every time he leaves work. He said he opens the cut out and burns past it and has never received a letter or citation. He says it's been there for months now.
Sure and an air filter can become clogged, but it is not when it is new and therefore not that restrictive. And to equate a Neon cat to what a Mustang has is, well puzzling. Chrysler has never been know for their engine management systems let alone efficient vehicles. It is not my fault Chrysler has catalytic converters that are not optimum for the Neon. The aftermarket does have Converters that would not be any restriction to the turbo Neon.
My point is ( and I've said it before) I'm sick of the polluting sh it I have to follow behind because we DON'T have an emissions standard in this state. I'll bet that if somebody took a poll, the states that don't have vehicle inspections have more junk on the roads that not only spew out all kinds if crap into the air, but they are also unsafe to even be on the road in the first place. Seriously, you can see some of this crap coming the other way from a mile in front smoking and choking everybody around it. It's the lesser of two evils,...The new cars pass emissions while making 412 HP, so It's not like it can't be done.
Okay so the cats are good for the car. That's why all the drag racers run them. Chryslers cat is the same honeycomb design they use on all cars so I'm not sure what your referring to there. All modern catalytic converters are "high flow" it doesn't mean they still aren't restrictive.
I live in MN and we do not have emissions testing here. I drive at least 30 miles per day, and I rarely see a car that is polluting heavily. The cars that do pollute seem to exist in the lower income neighborhoods and those people likely couldn't afford a newer "cleaner" car anyways. Emissions testing stations do nothing but harm the lower income citizens, because generally the lower income citizens are driving older cars with mechanical issues. These mechanical issues don't seem to cause many accidents though, as nearly every accident I've seen on MN roads involves newer vehicles.
Perhaps it is different where you live, but here in MN where they salt the roads in the winter anything over 15 years old is either a weekend toy or has rusted away to nothing.
Wrong wrong wrong. Just because Chrysler uses a "modern" style catalytic converter does not mean that it is sized properly for the vehicle it is installed on, let alone configured to optimize the performance of the vehicle. Not "all" modern catalytic converters are "high flow". That is a very broad blanket statement to throw out there when you have not seen what the auto manufactures are putting on vehicles on a day to day basis.
And some drag racers do use catalytic converters simply because it is also their DD. My friends 93 Convert ran low 10's with cats. It can be done.
jdb3rd
Member
In Maryland the emissions program used to consist of some douchebag getting in your car and dogging the piss out of it on a dyno and there was nothing you could do about it if you didnt want your registration suspended. Now on OBD equipped cars they just plug into the computer and thats that except it costs you time and $14. On older cars they perform tailpipe tests no longer with the rollers just with your car idling then rev it to 2500 for 30 seconds and then back at idle. Of course I haven't been in a long time because I have historic plates on my 88 and my truck is a diesel which isn't subject to emission testing. One thing I never saw them do was inspect anything except whether or not your car had cats on it and from what I hear they don't even do that anymore. I saw cars going through with bald tires and parts falling off and they don't care. Here you only have to get your car inspected when you title it and you don't have to do that if you have historic or street rod plates.
Is this not EXACTLY what were talking about? Thats good for your friend running low 10's. Imagine how fast he would be without the cats!
This is why I have a problem with the Government spending so much money just to catch a few "gross polluters". My cars pass inspection every year and its likely that the guys giving the test could really give a crap one way or the other. Its just another Big Brother is watching you manuever that is ruining our great Country.
Without changing the tune of the car, not one tenth faster. The car was optimized to do what it did with what it had. Once the decision was made to go to C-16 then the cats came off and the car has since gone 9.6 in the 1/4. But then we would be comparing Apples to Orangutans.
Never said it would make it tenths faster, just said it would make more power. Chipanzees to Spider Monkeys.
No, The same applies. There is just a larger preponderance of lower income's in this city. So what? I should have to look at and breathe the cloud hanging over the city because a lower income bracket "dirty's it up"? You can literally "smell" downtown Birmingham on some days, the air is so bad. It becomes a political issue again, because to clean it up, somebody is gonna have to pay to subsidize the repair/upgrade of those lower income folks to get a passing emission cert. I am not from around here Nate. I spent 12 years in the midwest, and 5 in Colo. My take on old cars in harsh winters is that they don't exist. The only reason I can think of that you don't see the older junk in more wrecks in MN, is that the older junk won't start in a Minnesota winter. A Min-win down here would be a blessing,....It would kill off some of the smoking junk I'm talking about.
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