Seriously? I can't believe it won't start!

Lawbreaker5.0 · Sep 26, 2009

so over the past few months i've been converting my 92 gt to 5 lug. i had a vib problem before when i think a put the flexplate on wrong(a couple bolts started stripping) so during this time i pulled the trans, put in a new clutch, resurfaced flywheel,new TO and pilot bearing. i also put a new maf, newer 24's and matching computer since i thought my used pro m maf was bad and causing my idle issues. i also notice a little bit of oil coming from the lower intake so i re did that as well.

well when the dist was out to do the lower gasket, i was installing the flywheel and flexplate and i turned the crank (stupid me) and now that i have everything back together, i'm trying to stab this damn dist back in and turn the car.

i know the procedure by heart, thats why this thing is bothering me,

find the compression stroke, turn the bal to 0 stab the distributer pointing the rotor towards number one, and fire it up.

the damn thing won't turn over, i can get it to cough for a split sec, but nothing. i get out turn the dist one way and try it again, nothing. get out turn the dist another way and nothing.

fuel pressure is at 30psi and i had no issues with spark before so i asume i'm getting it. i just know i'm doing something wrong.

oh and i've even tried pulling the dist and turning the rotor one tooth over in each direction and it does nothing as well. i i've read write ups on it and i follow them to a T. WTF!

sorry for the long post. any tips or suggestions would help.

i can't believe i can put a whole f'ing engine together but i can't stab the f'ing distruber............... AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

HISSIN50 · Sep 26, 2009

Don't assume anything is functioning properly after all those parts were on and off. Run Jrichker's list.

Good luck.

Lawbreaker5.0 · Sep 26, 2009

HISSIN50 said:
Don't assume anything is functioning properly after all those parts were on and off. Run Jrichker's list.

Good luck.

i just checked for spark and i have it, what i don't understand is why the plugs don't smell like fuel.

i have a guage hooked up to the fuel line and since the car has sat for 3 months the guage read 0, now it reads 30 so i know theres fuel atleast to the line. the wires have numbers on them so i know there correctly placed and i know the firing order is 13726548

liljoe07 · Sep 26, 2009

How did you verify Compression stroke?

Have you tried spraying starting fluid in the intake and seeing if it will run then?

Lawbreaker5.0 · Sep 26, 2009

liljoe07 said:
How did you verify Compression stroke?

Have you tried spraying starting fluid in the intake and seeing if it will run then?

i put my finger over the number one plug and turn the crank over with a ratchet with the other hand

i haven't tried starter fluid/carb cleaner yet, but i will

liljoe07 · Sep 27, 2009

If runs with starting fluid, then you need to check the injectors for a pulse while cranking.

Lawbreaker5.0 · Sep 27, 2009

liljoe07 said:
If runs with starting fluid, then you need to check the injectors for a pulse while cranking.

it doesn't, just finished messing with it. i swear i had this problem the last time i had to stab it too!

jrichker · Sep 27, 2009

Putting the distributor back in is fairly simple. Pull #1 sparkplug, put your finger in the sparkplug hole,
crank the engine until you feel compression. Then line up the TDC mark on the balancer with the pointer
on the engine block.

The distributor starts out with the #1 plug wire lined up at about 12:00 with you facing it. Align the rotor
to about 11:00, since it will turn clockwise as it slides into place.

Align the distributor rotor up with the #1 position marked on the cap, slide the distributor down into the block,
(you may have to wiggle the rotor slightly to get the gear to engage) and then note where the rotor is pointing.
If it still lines up with #1 position on the cap, install the clamp and bolt. If not, pull it out and turn 1 tooth forwards
or backwards and try again. Put the #1 spark plug back in and tighten it down, put the clamp on the distributor,
but don't tighten it too much, as you will have to move the distributor to set the timing. Note that if it doesn't
align perfectly with #1 position, you can turn the distributor until it does. The only problem is that if you are too
far one way or the other, you can't turn the distributor enough to get the 10-14 degree optimum timing range.

10 degrees BTC is towards the drivers side marks.

Simplified diagram of what it looks like. Not all the marks are shown for ease of viewing.

ATC ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '!' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' BTC
---------------- > Direction of Rotation as viewed standing in front of the engine.

The ' is 2 degrees.
The ! is TDC
The ' is 10 degrees BTC
Set the timing 5 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 5 marks towards the driver's side.

At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light and start the engine. Set the timing where your car
runs best. Don't forget to disconnect the SPOUT jumper connector when you set the timing, and plug it back
in when you finish.

The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected Mustangs

A word about this checklist before you start: it is arranged in a specific order to put the most likely failure items first. That will save you time, energy and money. Start at the top of the list and work your way down. Jumping around will possibly cause you to miss just what you need to see to find and fix the problem. Don’t skip any steps because the next step depends on the last step working correctly.

Revised 19-Jun-2009 to clarify ignition switch & coil power states.
All text applies to all models unless stated otherwise.

Note: 94-95 specific changes are in red

1.) Remove push on connector (small red/blue wire) from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch to the Run position. Place car in neutral or Park and set the parking brake. Remove the coil wire from distributor & and hold it 3/8” away from the engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.

No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) MSD or Crane ignition box if so equipped
B.) PIP sensor in distributor. The PIP sensor supplies the timing pulse to trigger the TFI and injectors. A failing PIP sensor will sometimes let the engine start if the SPOUT is removed. See paragraph 5A - a noid light will tell if the pip is working by flashing when the engine is cranking.
C.) TFI module: use a test light to check the TFI module. Place one lead of the test light on the red/green wire on the ignition coil connector and the other lead on the dark green/yellow wire on the ignition coil connector. If the TFI is working properly, the test light will flash when the engine is cranked using the ignition switch.
D.) Coil
E.) No ECC or computer power - ECC or computer relay failure
86-93 models only: ECC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires
94-95 models only: EEC or PCM power relay in the constant control relay module. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
F.) No ECC or computer power - fuse or fuse link failure
86-93 models only: Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires. All the fuse links live in a bundle up near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp EEC fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
G.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the ignition coil red/lt green wire. No 12 volts, blown fuse link or faulty ignition switch. Remove the plastic from around the ignition switch and look for 12 volts on the red/green wire with the switch in the Run position. No 12 volts and the ignition switch is faulty. If 12 volts is present in the Run position at the ignition switch but not at the coil, then the fuse or fuse link is blown.
Note: fuses or fuse links blow for a reason. Don’t replace either a fuse or fuse link with one with a larger rating than stock. Doing so invites an electrical fire.
Ignition fuse links may be replaced with an inline fuse holder and 5 amp fuse for troubleshooting purposes.
94-95 models only: Check inside fuse panel for fuse #18 blown – 20 amp fuse
H.) Missing or loose computer power ground. The computer has its own dedicated power ground that comes off the ground pigtail on the battery ground wire. Due to it's proximity to the battery, it may become corroded by acid fumes from the battery. It is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/lt green wire. You'll find it up next to the starter solenoid where the wire goes into the wiring harness
I.) Computer.
J.) Bad or missing secondary power ground. It is located between the back of the intake manifold and the driver's side firewall. It supplies ground for the alternator, A/C compressor clutch and other electrical accessories such as the gauges.
K.) Engine fires briefly, but dies immediately when the key is released to the Run position. Crank the engine & when it fires off, pull the small push on connector (red wire) off the starter relay (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Hold the switch in the crank position: if it continues to run there is a problem with either the ignition switch or TFI module. Check for 12 volts at the red/green wire on the coil with the switch in the Run position. Good 12 volts, then replace the TFI. No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.

Wiring Diagrams:…

Sorry, the AutoZone wiring diagram links no longer work. You can navigate to the diagrams yourself via AutoZone.com | Repair Info and select the car year, make, model and engine. That will enable you to bring up the wiring diagram for your particular car.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Engine Information Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 94-95 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/94-95_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability: [/b]
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.

Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 5-20 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the EEC test connector and jump the connector in the Upper RH corner to ground. The EEC connector is near the wiper motor and LH hood hinge.

If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the Schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In a pinch, you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have. If you have any doubts about having sufficient fuel flow/pressure, rent a fuel pressure test gauge from the auto parts store. That will tell you for sure if you have adequate fuel pressure.

4.) No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) 86-90 models only: Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay.
91-93 models only Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
The fuse links for all model years 86-93 live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp fuel pump fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the Dark green/yellow wire on the constant control relay module.
F.) Engine seem to load up on fuel and may have black smoke at the tailpipe. Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove the vacuum line from the regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while the pump is running. If fuel is coming out the vacuum port, the regulator has failed. Check the regulator vacuum line for fuel too. Disconnect it from the engine and blow air though it. If you find gas, the regulator has failed.

5.) Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.
A.) The PIP sensor in the distributor tells the computer when to fire the injectors. A failing PIP sensor will sometimes let the engine start if the SPOUT is removed.
A noid light available from any auto parts store, is one way to test the injector circuit to see if the injectors are firing. The noid light plugs into the fuel injector harness in place of any easily accessible injector. Plug it in and try to start the engine: it will flash if the injector is firing.
B.) I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.
D.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
E.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).
F.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the ECC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.
G.) TPS voltage exceeds 3.7 volts with the throttle closed. This will shut off the injectors, since the computer uses this strategy to clear a flooded engine. Use a DVM, a pair of safety pins, and probe the black/white and green wires to measure the TPS voltage.
On a 94-95 Mustang, probe the black/white and grey/white wires to measure the TPS voltage.
It should be .5-.1.0 volts with the key on, engine not running. Note that if the black/white wire (signal ground) has a bad connection, you will get some strange readings. Make a second measurement using the battery post as the ground to eliminate any ground problems. If the readings are different by more than 5%, you may have a high resistance condition in the black/white signal ground circuit.

6.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.
A.) Failed IAB or improperly set base idle (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car. See the "Surging Idle Checklist for help with all your idle/stall problems.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: only likely if the engine has been worked on recently).
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.
F. ) Engine that has had the heads off or valves adjusted. Do a compression test to make sure the valves are not adjusted too tight. You should have a minimum of 90 PSI on a cold engine.

Lawbreaker5.0 · Sep 27, 2009

is there another way to jump the engine using a remote starter. i have one, but the thing is i hid the wires a while back so i can't jump the relay any more

jrichker · Sep 27, 2009

Lawbreaker5.0 said:
is there another way to jump the engine using a remote starter. i have one, but the thing is i hid the wires a while back so i can't jump the relay any more

Seems like you shot yourself in the foot...

I don't know of a simple way of doing it without taking the cover off the steering column and trying to find the correct wire that goes to the starter solenoid.

Typical start circuit...
Diagrams courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

liljoe07 · Sep 27, 2009

Maybe the black connector that engages the starter solenod trigger wire can be supplied with 12v. But I agree with Jr, shot in the foot..

Lawbreaker5.0 · Sep 27, 2009

can i hook up the remote starter directly to the starter with the key turned?

liljoe07 · Sep 27, 2009

The starter wire is only hot when the main solenoid is engaged.

Lawbreaker5.0 · Sep 27, 2009

i've stabbed it now 50+ times

liljoe07 · Sep 27, 2009

Are you getting an Injector Pulse?

Lawbreaker5.0 · Sep 28, 2009

liljoe07 said:
Are you getting an Injector Pulse?

idk.

i didn't unplug the wiring harness or anything? and the car ran strong other than the idle issue. so i wouldn't think the injectors/wiring could be messed up.

where can i rent a injector pulse checker?

ID89GT · Sep 28, 2009

If you are having problems getting the dizzy in, the way I do it is take a compression tester hose and thread it into the spark plug spot for the number one cylinder, then have someone crank the car over and when your finger blows off, use a ratchet to set the timing marks to zero, then put the dizzy in the number one cylinder spot. It works everytime for me.

Lawbreaker5.0 · Sep 28, 2009

ID89GT said:
If you are having problems getting the dizzy in, the way I do it is take a compression tester hose and thread it into the spark plug spot for the number one cylinder, then have someone crank the car over and when your finger blows off, use a ratchet to set the timing marks to zero, then put the dizzy in the number one cylinder spot. It works everytime for me.

thanks for the advice, but i've done that now about 50 times

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/782429-can-distributor-really-one-tooth-off-lets-discuss.html

if this applies i should be able to just turn the distributer enough to get it to fire, but believe me i've turned the damn thing in every direction possible

stykthyn · Sep 28, 2009

possible spun balancer so now your marks are off?

MAC'n89Blckstng · Sep 28, 2009

I had the same problem, until I realized I wired the plug wires as if the dizzy spun clockwise instead of counter clockwise.

Seriously? I can't believe it won't start!

Lawbreaker5.0

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I want to measure mine. It doesn't look that tall.

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