Single stage vs basecoat/clearcoat

satanas · Jun 20, 2008

Hey guys Im almost ready to paint my engine bay and the whole car. Can someone tell me whats the pros and cons of both methods. I was told by a Napa paint specialist that I should Paint my car with a single stage then scuff if, then put clear over it to protect it a little more from uv rays and other things. He said it will give it a depper darker look since its not mixed with a lot of reducers,hardeners, .Its solid and covers a lot faster.Im going with black..guys let me know so I can see what is the best method.Who has used single stage?

MAC'n89Blckstng · Jun 20, 2008

I would definately go with the single stage, then block it out with 1000 grit sand paper and then clear over than. It will look very deep and I've heard is the best way to get a deep deep black. Good luck with it man. Make sure to post lots of pictures.

satanas · Jun 20, 2008

MACn89blckstng said:
I would definately go with the single stage, then block it out with 1000 grit sand paper and then clear over than. It will look very deep and I've heard is the best way to get a deep deep black. Good luck with it man. Make sure to post lots of pictures.

Thanks for the post.. Is that a urethane single or enamel?

MAC'n89Blckstng · Jun 20, 2008

I would go with a urethane paint.

allballsmustang · Jun 21, 2008

even if a single stage is done right it will shine nice but like stated above, a nice sanding and some clear does wonders...mines done in single but i plan on basing over it with another coat in the near future and clearing it...but thats just cause i wanna lay it on thick so i can wet sand out any orange peel so its really smooth... good luck

matador91 · Jun 21, 2008

A lot of it has to do with the paint line 1 stage 2 stage or 3 stage. Try and spend some money on a good brand like PPG GLOBAL, or GLASURIT 55-line it will make any stage paint job look a lot better, but in my opinion spray the color then the clear. Just a little tip the only way it's going to look right is if you spend a *hit load of time prepping it, I just hope you know how or that black is going to show every imperfection.

satanas · Jun 21, 2008

matador91 said:
A lot of it has to do with the paint line 1 stage 2 stage or 3 stage. Try and spend some money on a good brand like PPG GLOBAL, or GLASURIT 55-line it will make any stage paint job look a lot better, but in my opinion spray the color then the clear. Just a little tip the only way it's going to look right is if you spend a *hit load of time prepping it, I just hope you know how or that black is going to show every imperfection.

Yes Ive spent almost a year prepping due to not enough time to work on my car. Ive had to do other customizations to my car but finally im ready for paint.Yes I know black show all imperfections thats why it took me long to prep it.

lang williams · Jun 21, 2008

My 87 notch had a single stage paint job on it an UV rays faded it in less than 3 years. It wasn't a top quality paint but I'm still going to avoid single stage paints on my current notch. If you're going through major prep work, disassembling the lights an trim, finish it up with a ppg bc/cc paint job. If you just want a nice looking dd consider the single stage.

SVT32VDOHC · Jun 21, 2008

Did somebody say single stage???

This is Project 81 Hack Job. I laid 3 coats of Nason Urethane single stage paint. The shine is unreal and you can wetsand it flatter than any bc/cc. You are sanding the paint itself. With bc/cc, you are only wetsanding clear so if the paint hasn't laid perfect the imperfections are still under there. Also, the paint didn't shrink up at all with the single stage. No sand scratches came back. With bc/cc, you will get shrinkage. You can reduce shrinkage with a good sealer you spray over the primer. It goes down, dries about 20 minutes at 70* temps, then lay the paint...single state or bc/cc...which ever you prefer.

Just to let you know, single stage paint STICKS TO EVERYTHING AROUND YOU. Get everything out of the garage. I had my grey leather seats cover with thick bed sheets and the yellow still got under them and stuck to them.

And finally....

Before

White sealer

Paint

Finished product wet sanded with 1000, 1500, 2000, rubbed out but still not polished.

satanas · Jun 22, 2008

SVT32VDOHC said:
Did somebody say single stage???

This is Project 81 Hack Job. I laid 3 coats of Nason Urethane single stage paint. The shine is unreal and you can wetsand it flatter than any bc/cc. You are sanding the paint itself. With bc/cc, you are only wetsanding clear so if the paint hasn't laid perfect the imperfections are still under there. Also, the paint didn't shrink up at all with the single stage. No sand scratches came back. With bc/cc, you will get shrinkage. You can reduce shrinkage with a good sealer you spray over the primer. It goes down, dries about 20 minutes at 70* temps, then lay the paint...single state or bc/cc...which ever you prefer.

Just to let you know, single stage paint STICKS TO EVERYTHING AROUND YOU. Get everything out of the garage. I had my grey leather seats cover with thick bed sheets and the yellow still got under them and stuck to them.

And finally....

Before

White sealer

Paint

Finished product wet sanded with 1000, 1500, 2000, rubbed out but still not polished.

Awesome job. Did you clear it or you still have it with the just the paint?

SVT32VDOHC · Jun 23, 2008

That is just the paint. No clear over it. I asked my paint supplier about that, and I talked to the owner of this body shop near me who has built a lot of 1st place Autorama cars, and they both asked me why I wanted to do that. They both recommended to not clear over it. They both know a lot about paint, but they weren't sure if there would be a reaction with the two styles of paint, or what the long term outcome would be. I can tell you that it shines way more than my bc/cc job I put on my 91 notch which is black. It also looks better too.

satanas · Jun 23, 2008

SVT32VDOHC said:
That is just the paint. No clear over it. I asked my paint supplier about that, and I talked to the owner of this body shop near me who has built a lot of 1st place Autorama cars, and they both asked me why I wanted to do that. They both recommended to not clear over it. They both know a lot about paint, but they weren't sure if there would be a reaction with the two styles of paint, or what the long term outcome would be. I can tell you that it shines way more than my bc/cc job I put on my 91 notch which is black. It also looks better too.

I was thinking that also, about having a reaction between both paints I know you can spray one over the other but not sure which one is it.I was also told that the clear will just protect the paint under it like a bc/cc.When you painted your car was it shiny already?

lang williams · Jun 23, 2008

project hack job does look sweet, i had a bad experience with single stage fading in the sun...If i had garaged it it may have worked out better. This was 5 years ago with some paint that was under $100 a gallon so it may not have been that great to begin with.

SVT32VDOHC · Jun 24, 2008

satanas said:
I was thinking that also, about having a reaction between both paints I know you can spray one over the other but not sure which one is it.I was also told that the clear will just protect the paint under it like a bc/cc.When you painted your car was it shiny already?

Yeah, you don't want to have a reaction, that will cost you a fortune to buy supplies twice. I talked to him again yesterday about this. He said the stuff I used. Nason Urethane Ful-Thane is the best stuff Nason sells. He said that will stay shiny forever. He said it is tougher than Emron that was used to paint UPS trucks and Firetrucks. It was shiny as hell when I was painting, and was more shiny the more coats I sprayed. It is still shiny. The biggest thing is that it is so hard, it doesn't allow shrinkage. I have not one spot that shrunk up.

BTW: If you are painting black, I would use bc/cc. Because you can rub the single stage so much, you will go crazy trying to get black 100% perfect. It will always show little imperfections no matter what type of rubbing compound, or pads you use. This is because it is so hard. The clearcoat has some give so you can rub all swirls, and scratch marks out of it.

lang williams said:
project hack job does look sweet, i had a bad experience with single stage fading in the sun...If i had garaged it it may have worked out better. This was 5 years ago with some paint that was under $100 a gallon so it may not have been that great to begin with.

Thank you. Do you know what brand single stage it is?

We painted out delivery truck with single stage about 3 years ago. The truck always sits outside 365 days a year in all Michigan weather, and it still looks good and shines like crazy. Most Mustangs are garaged, and wouldn't fade anyways, but because our truck still looks so good, that's why I used single stage on Hack Job.

1990Coupe · Jun 24, 2008

SVT did you wetsand/polish/buff your paint after u finished? OR was hackjob's paint nice enough where all you had to do was let it cure for a while, then in a few weeks throw a coat of wax on her????

I'm debating on tackling painting as well (i have painted a car before). But i don't think i can make it come out that great if i have to wetsand it. I have a Portercable buffer, but i think i need a rotory buffer to achieve the best shine from wetsanding

SVT32VDOHC · Jun 24, 2008

1990Coupe said:
SVT did you wetsand/polish/buff your paint after u finished? OR was hackjob's paint nice enough where all you had to do was let it cure for a while, then in a few weeks throw a coat of wax on her????

I'm debating on tackling painting as well (i have painted a car before). But i don't think i can make it come out that great if i have to wetsand it. I have a Portercable buffer, but i think i need a rotory buffer to achieve the best shine from wetsanding

Yes, I wetsanded Hack Jobs single stage with 1,000, 1,500 then 2,000. I used 3M Perfect It III Extra Cut Rubbing Compound. I rubbed it out with a Meguiars "Cutting" Pad which is maroon in color. This was used with a Makita rotary wheel. Next, I stepped the compound down to a 3M Perfect It II with a Meguiars "Finessing Pad" which is yellow in color. This made all the wetsanding scratches disappear, but of course leaves swirl marks.

My next step, I'm going to use Wizards 1-Step Rubbing Compound. It is an extremely light cutting compound that polishes the hell outta the paint. It is the best stuff I have used. I use to use 3M Swirl Remover and Polish for "Light" colored cars, or "Dark" colored cars, but they disconitued it in small quantities.

I actually do not use wax at all. With all the polymeres in Wizards, and the old 3M Swirl Remover I used, I never felt the need for wax. My cars shined pretty bright.

BTW: FOR BC/CC.....I would not use the maroon "cutting pad" with a rotory wheel. It is very easy to burn the clear coat. Just use the regular yellow "Finessing pad". That is what I used for my black bc/cc 91 notch.

1990Coupe · Jun 24, 2008

You need to come out to jersey once i get my project car so we can shoot the shyt, bs, and u can school me

SVT32VDOHC · Jun 24, 2008

1990Coupe said:
You need to come out to jersey once i get my project car so we can shoot the shyt, bs, and u can school me

That would be great man. That would be cool to meet up somewhere in the summer. I'll buy you a couple beers for the thread over in BHR.

satanas · Jun 24, 2008

well my mustang will be garage kept so maybe the single stage will do, would it?

1990Coupe · Jun 25, 2008

SVT32VDOHC said:
That would be great man. That would be cool to meet up somewhere in the summer. I'll buy you a couple beers for the thread over in BHR.

I would have to agree

satanas said:
well my mustang will be garage kept so maybe the single stage will do, would it?

I'd say you'll be safe with single stage.. here is my coupe painted single stage torch red courtsey of Macco... I did the prep though

Single stage vs basecoat/clearcoat

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