So,...you bought a dart block, and plans are for 750 hp....

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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I don't know why guys do it. For the sake of " mines bigger" maybe.

I've said it all along,......the persuit of anything over 500 WHP is laughable in a car that doesn't have the benefit of some sort of traction control.
And if ya just have to do it..Better make sure your ecu has the way to accommodate some sort of launch controller so you won't get your ass handed to you by a mildly modified WRX.
This guy,..whoever he is has this awesome stable of cars..he goes to this race with a yellow $500,000.00 Ford GT, and updates the video at the end with a brand new red one sitting under and beside several McLarens and a first gen GT.

He chose wisely in life.

https://www.motor1.com/news/308376/ford-gt-obliterates-corvette-zr1-race/
 
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MS for the WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is one of the main reasons I went to the MS platform is to be able to "tame the beast" with a standalone ECU. Mike, I do agree going after huge power goals with no support in handling the power is crazy especially in our light cars.

Having the ability to do traction control, boost-by-gear/mph, increase/decrease boost levels, etc...
 
MS for the WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is one of the main reasons I went to the MS platform is to be able to "tame the beast" with a standalone ECU. Mike, I do agree going after huge power goals with no support in handling the power is crazy especially in our light cars.

Having the ability to do traction control, boost-by-gear/mph, increase/decrease boost levels, etc...

And I've talked with Steve before,...I have a complete ms3x upgrade sitting in boxes that I couldn't justify doing the upgrade till just this post. Even though I'm not making anywhere near the power I'm talking about, if I could control the tire spin through 2nd gear the car would be faster 0-60/0-100.

I have a boost controller in place...whether I progressively control boost, ( makes the most sense to me), or ramp timing back based on some sort of driveshaft/wheel speed sensor, that would be incentive for me to consider opening up my ecu, and converting it over.
 
Honestly, anything over 350-400HP in a fox gets a little too wild for me. I've driven a 400HP coupe and it wasn't even fun to get on the throttle because traction issues were evident. What good is all that power if you have to baby it?
 
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Honestly, anything over 350-400HP in a fox gets a little too wild for me. I've driven a 400HP coupe and it wasn't even fun to get on the throttle because traction issues were evident. What good is all that power if you have to baby it?
I had a 460 whp SN car for a hot minute. I had some wider NT05s on the back and it would hook and book. Id bet with the right suspension setup and a sticky, wide rear tire, you could get all of it to stick in a lot of situations.
 
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Honestly, anything over 350-400HP in a fox gets a little too wild for me. I've driven a 400HP coupe and it wasn't even fun to get on the throttle because traction issues were evident. What good is all that power if you have to baby it?
That's the fun of it, lol. In all seriousness, a good tire is key. For a car that gets driven a decent amount but not a DD, the 555r is hard to beat. Not a track tire, but a huge improvement for the street.

My car is estimated about 425 on motor, and if I drive it for more than one day in a row, it starts feeling slow. Maybe I am just a junky, but I always crave more.
Joe
 
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MS3 can do just about anything... IMHO boost by MPH is the simplest way to control tire spin if you dont have the speed sensors necessary to do traction control. Once you have the boost controller tuned in closed loop you just specify the boost level by MPH. We did this on Kyle's on3 turbo fox and it worked wonderfully, even with the closed loop control numbers ham fisted in for a test it worked like it should.
 
That's the fun of it, lol. In all seriousness, a good tire is key. For a car that gets driven a decent amount but not a DD, the 555r is hard to beat. Not a track tire, but a huge improvement for the street.

My car is estimated about 425 on motor, and if I drive it for more than one day in a row, it starts feeling slow. Maybe I am just a junky, but I always crave more.
Joe
I agree with the 555r; they’re some of the better street tires for hooking when you make decent power.

I also agree with your car feeling slow after driving out around. Shoot when I drive mine for a few hours I think about putting a 125 shot on it lol.
 
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The good news is that we haven't had any newbs in a while with delusions of grandeur coming in talking about their 1000rwhp build. It used to happen all the time and I can't even remember anyone that has even been close with a street car other than groverdill.

I drive a fairly potent setup that makes quite a bit of power through the entire rpm range.
And I have to agree, i'm not really sure what people need more than 500rwhp for. Especially in a car this light in general and even worse in the ass end.

I think my bigger issue is with the money it costs to surpass 500rwhp.
Dart block built engine, bigger power adder and worst of all throwing 2 grand in the dumpster on a fuel system.
Honestly, if 450rwhp doesn't make you happy, neither will 600rwhp.

Cap it at 450rwhp and spend the $15,000 you just saved on something else.
 
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600 rwhp in the Blue 93GT seems to be just about right. I can really get after it on the street, and when it slips, the car is stable enough that it doesn't get hairy. With the MM suspension, the weight does transfer like the black car does. So, I'm skeptical that I can make much, if any, more and put it to the ground.

In the black car, traction issues are going to be fun to work through, and I hope not to heavily use my slew-rate control.
 
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I have traction problems from a second gear roll for sure. It will hold initially but when you get to 4500rpm, it gets loose. Third seems like its barely hangin on. This is with 400 whp and Nitto 555 285/40’s

Thanks for sharing the link mike
 
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The good news is that we haven't had any newbs in a while with delusions of grandeur coming in talking about their 1000rwhp build. It used to happen all the time and I can't even remember anyone that has even been close with a street car other than groverdill.

Erm... Not so sure about that one. Perhaps my black car with a/c, power steering, and full interior doesn't count? It is definitely not as good-looking, but it's also more streetable in most ways (windshield wipers, a/c, lower compression makes idle and low load tuning better). Is it because of the cage? I actually think there have been quite a few, but I don't keep a list. Wolverine, Danimal, Will Evers are 3 names that come to mind, though they weren't regulars here, but they all had 4-digit turbocharged T56 street cars that I spoke to back when I was building mine.

I drive a fairly potent setup that makes quite a bit of power through the entire rpm range.
And I have to agree, i'm not really sure what people need more than 500rwhp for. Especially in a car this light in general and even worse in the ass end.

Just because... And, that's the same reason to make a 190rwhp car go to 500 rwhp.

I think my bigger issue is with the money it costs to surpass 500rwhp.
Dart block built engine, bigger power adder and worst of all throwing 2 grand in the dumpster on a fuel system.
Honestly, if 450rwhp doesn't make you happy, neither will 600rwhp.

Cap it at 450rwhp and spend the $15,000 you just saved on something else.
This is the most solid argument. There's just a bump between making stock power and 300 rwhp. There's a small hill to get to 500 rwhp. There's a mountain-sized obstacle between 500 and 600. But it's pretty much down hill from there. If you're going to shoot for 600rwhp, then you're going to address everything on the car. Once you've done the dart block, the fuel system, the management, the suspension, and the power-adder, you really might as well shoot for whatever number is not going to get old. I originally shot for 600 rwhp, and ended up with 4 digit potential. Actually made 880 at 21psi to the tire, but the EBC couldn't keep the WG closed with the smallish spring (8 lbs). Next dyno, eventually, will be with a 20 lbs spring. I expect slightly higher numbers than the blue car, but only because the turbine flows more and they both have the same compressor. At this level, it's almost all about the power adder.

If I'm not mistaken, Groverdill's highest run was limited at 954 rwhp due to fueling limitations on E85. On race gas, it might squeeze out a bit more, but that 76GTS is pretty well used up. Now that I think about it, that may be the best result I've ever heard of with that turbo.
 
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Erm... Not so sure about that one. Perhaps my black car with a/c, power steering, and full interior doesn't count? It is definitely not as good-looking, but it's also more streetable in most ways (windshield wipers, a/c, lower compression makes idle and low load tuning better). Is it because of the cage? I actually think there have been quite a few, but I don't keep a list. Wolverine, Danimal, Will Evers are 3 names that come to mind, though they weren't regulars here, but they all had 4-digit turbocharged T56 street cars that I spoke to back when I was building mine.

I kinda did say "I can't remember".
Don't take it personal, but I don't know your black car. I don't remember those other guys either.
But I also should have stated "recently". I do faintly remember other members, but they were way back and I can't recall the names.
I know plenty of guys personally with monster setups, some in excess of 1500rwhp, my buddy owned a mustang shop for years, just seemed like most of those guys were after a power number, not a driving experience. A good portion of those cars also evolved into race cars.

What I will so is that I don't think 600rwhp is unreasonable from a driveable standpoint, just trying to meet that goal doesn't make financial sense if you have a stock block'ed car that runs well.

I also have a bit stricter idea of what a street car is than some other people.
I know some guys that think because you can register it and it has a spot for a license plate, ther'e good.
 
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Guess it all comes down to what youre comfortable with . at 580 i could do just about anything with the car and no reaction it had bothered me . At 640 at the tire it began to be come interesting but i also swapped from 555r to the et streets and it helped. Im eventually putting a drive shaft sensor in once i swap to the 9 inch yoke to be able to setup some sort of power management with it . Also will have a timing ramp for leaving off the brake to tame it down . My newest plan is 7-750 ish on pump/meth and 9 or better on c16 turned up and still drive it everywhere.
 
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