Starter problems...scratchin my head

85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end

15 Year Member

Nov 11, 2003

6,945

1,598

223

Northern KY

Mar 9, 2009

#1

• Mar 9, 2009

• #1

I just put this 347 in, and now the starter grinds every time you turn the key. I know this is a stupid problem but i can't put my finger on it. I thought that maybe the starter was hitting the oil pan and causing alignment issues but i got under it today and found that it clears by a solid 1/4 inch, so this is a problem with the starter gear aligning with the flywheel or something along those lines.

So...just to make sure i've got this right in my head...you don't need to shim a Ford starter right? Because every hick in my neighborhood is telling me to shim it, and after you hear it so many times you start to wonder if you're right about it not needing shimmed.

Second, if no shim is needed, WTF is going on? The damn thing worked fine on the 302 so why would it be off now? Just to double check, how many teeth should i have on my flywheel? That's the only possible thing i can think of that could be wrong.

 

BK_CAULEY

it's built for speed not longevity, woman

Dec 26, 2006

0

10

49

Thomasville, ga

Mar 9, 2009

#2

• Mar 9, 2009

• #2

No you do not have to shim it. and you should have 157 teeth. did you re-use your old flywheel? if not what did the 347 comeout of? what trans was he running? if it was a c4 he could have used a 160 tooth.

 

85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end

15 Year Member

Nov 11, 2003

6,945

1,598

223

Northern KY

Mar 9, 2009

#3

• Mar 9, 2009

• #3

Bought a new flywheel but we bought a 157. The only thing i can think of is we got the wrong flywheel maybe. The crappiest part of this is i can't get the damn starter out because of the 7qt pan being in my way.

When i get this POS oil pan out, i'm gonna post a huge warning/bitching thread about this hunk of crap so nobody ever gets suckered into buying one.

 

warriorpluto

Member

Aug 1, 2007

267

1

19

monroe.LA

Mar 9, 2009

#4

• Mar 9, 2009

• #4

get a mini starter. that problem left me stranded so many times its a shame. found out i had a c6 behind my engine. i really miss that old start up sound.

 

warriorpluto

Member

Aug 1, 2007

267

1

19

monroe.LA

Mar 9, 2009

#5

• Mar 9, 2009

• #5

i did the same thing. put in a new fly wheel. new starter(old style) just a waste of money. fixed it for maybe two weeks but started doing the same thing. get a 93 mustang starter. no problems yet.

 

BK_CAULEY

it's built for speed not longevity, woman

Dec 26, 2006

0

10

49

Thomasville, ga

Mar 9, 2009

#6

• Mar 9, 2009

• #6

didnt you have a c4? you might have had a 160 tooth to begin with. just count your teeth on your old one before you go buying a new starter.

 

85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end

15 Year Member

Nov 11, 2003

6,945

1,598

223

Northern KY

Mar 9, 2009

#7

• Mar 9, 2009

• #7

Nope, same trany came out, same trany/bell/starter went back in. The only change (aside from the engine but it's still a 302 block) was the flywheel. I think i'm gonna have to pull the trans and count the teeth. I bet we got the wrong flywheel.

This oil pan, it's basically a stock pan with some added capacity welded onto the rear sump...which extends right up under the damn starter so even a mini starter is not going to drop out from the bottom. On top of that i've got LT's so i can't just slip the passenger header out either...i've gotta unbolt the motor mounts and lift the engine up enough to get the header out and then pull the starter out from the engine bay.

 

ID89GT

10 Year Member

May 26, 2008

1,659

18

49

Spokane Valley, WA

Mar 9, 2009

#8

• Mar 9, 2009

• #8

Do you have the plate that goes in between the flywheel and the block on?

 

85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end

15 Year Member

Nov 11, 2003

6,945

1,598

223

Northern KY

Mar 9, 2009

#9

• Mar 9, 2009

• #9

ID89GT said:

Do you have the plate that goes in between the flywheel and the block on?

Click to expand...

Yes...but here's the funny part...i never did before this engine swap. When i put the Tremec in, i was coming from a C4 back then, but i bought the trans/bell/clutch/flywheel at the same time and never bought/had the shield plate deal. I got this one from a friend and have been waiting for a good reason to put it in and just got around to it.

So...is it possible that it created too much gap and now my starter isn't engaging the flywheel enough?

Another thing i'm curious about is how thick the new flywheel is...it's a billet steel flywheel and i'm coming from a FRPP wheel. I don't see why but i bet the flywheel is even thicker.

 

dcurtis

10 Year Member

Jan 19, 2006

688

7

39

Mar 10, 2009

#10

• Mar 10, 2009

• #10

I bought an 86 chevy silverado with a built 350 in it and the starter on it grinded for a few months, I even changed it about 3 times, and then when I decided to rebuild the engine, I pulled it all out and realized that whoever built the engine, it was a re-manufactured oreilly's crate engine, came with the flywheel on backwards, anyways I just flipped it over and no more problems.
I hope you get it figured out soon, as I would like to here that new engine rumble

 

Cobra912

Active Member

May 1, 2005

1,777

11

39

Wish I was anywhere but here

Mar 10, 2009

#11

• Mar 10, 2009

• #11

Hey 85 don't let everyone tell you that you DON'T need a shim. That may be the case. I had identical problem when I built my 331. The factory starter didn't have enough oommph so I had to swap in a powermaster mini gear reduction starter.

Due to all parts not being equal in tolerances, machining process etc. I actually had to use not just 1 but 2 (stacked) 2 bolt ford starter shims available at any napa store. After the starter disengaged it would rub on the flywheel. Pull your starter out and with a flashlight and check to see if it is marking up your flywheel. Catch it before it's too late.



- Jeff

 

C

C&SMustang

New Member

Jul 13, 2008

11

0

0

Georgia

Mar 10, 2009

#12

• Mar 10, 2009

• #12

I don't like to steal a thread...but I have this same problem with my completely original stock 93 LX 5.0. Original starter started to grind at start up, so I replaced it with a remanufactured one...same problem. Tried to shim it and it still grinds.

 

85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end

15 Year Member

Nov 11, 2003

6,945

1,598

223

Northern KY

Nov 1, 2010

#13

• Nov 1, 2010

• #13

65cobra had a question on how i resolved this, and for some reason i can't seem to get a PM reply to send so i'll answer it here...

Basically to make it as short as possible, the problem ended up being the plate between the bell and the block. It pushed the starter about 1/8 inch forward which put the gears out of mesh and they didn't connect enough, so they skipped which is what the grinding noise was. I ended up cutting the plate out around the starter bolt holes so the starter mounted flush on the bell housing and that solved the problem. This may not be the RIGHT way to solve it, but i had no idea what else to do, and the plate i'm using was home made anyways so if i screwed it up i wasn't out much. There must be some variance between how far some starters come out when they engage and how well they connect with the flywheel. There could also have been some difference in the flywheel itself since that was changed with the 347.

 

85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end

15 Year Member

Nov 11, 2003

6,945

1,598

223

Northern KY

Nov 1, 2010

#14

• Nov 1, 2010

• #14

If you're having a random issue with a stock starter, and none of these parts have changed, then i'd check the teeth and make sure none are chipped or wore off the flywheel, and if not then your starter may not be engaging far enough into the flywheel and may just need replaced. If 2 starters both grind, i'd suspect something is up with the flywheel itself.