Starting problem

[94GTMOOSE]

I've been experiencing some starting issues lately. After a drive (long or short) My car will occaitionaly not start back up. Its only after a drive and won't start for several mins. I thought it was because i needed a tune up. so this is what i have changed.

• cap
• rotor
• spark plugs
• wires
• coil

After changing these things the car had no problems until i blew up the auto trans and then replaced it with t-5. so the car sat for a few months. its been about a month since i started driving it again and now it just happened again last night. I'm thinking its got something to do with some sort of module that is going bad and when it gets heat soaked its not operating properly. I am just not sure which one.

Also not that this matters i also replaced the front cover gasket, water pump, heater hoses, and air pump pulley.

Let me know what you think

 

[hotcobra03]

had a problem that sounds like that.

I've been experiencing some starting issues lately. After a drive (long or short) My car will occaitionaly not start back up. Its only after a drive and won't start for several mins. I thought it was because i needed a tune up. so this is what i have changed.

• cap
• rotor
• spark plugs
• wires
• coil

After changing these things the car had no problems until i blew up the auto trans and then replaced it with t-5. so the car sat for a few months. its been about a month since i started driving it again and now it just happened again last night. I'm thinking its got something to do with some sort of module that is going bad and when it gets heat soaked its not operating properly. I am just not sure which one.

Also not that this matters i also replaced the front cover gasket, water pump, heater hoses, and air pump pulley.

Let me know what you think

i look at a persons car for a problem that sounds just like that, it would start fine, drive fine untill it was shut off. it was a sticky fuel pump relay.. we tryed another one and problem was gone...not saying its your problem but just a thought

 

[PAzYearazzUP]

Hummmmm, sat for months is a clogged idle jet or low speed circuit brings no fuel to start be it cold or hot is no fuel.... So you keep throwing a pedal at it or say the accel pump squirts enough in so it fires off and now it pulls fuel from other sources is fill that void no matter WOT. That is what you said is a sitter with she lack in the jet holes or very little fuel thru it, say is my guess.

 

[94GTMOOSE]

yeah i probably should of mentioned i can hear the fuel pump prime itself. I also squirted some fuel out of the check valve on the fuel rail. I am going to put a gauge on it in the morning, but i am doubtful that it is a fuel issue.

 

[94GTMOOSE]

Hummmmm, sat for months is a clogged idle jet or low speed circuit brings no fuel to start be it cold or hot is no fuel.... So you keep throwing a pedal at it or say the accel pump squirts enough in so it fires off and now it pulls fuel from other sources is fill that void no matter WOT. That is what you said is a sitter with she lack in the jet holes or very little fuel thru it, say is my guess.

i am really thankful that you replied to try to help me, but i have no idea what you just said at all. I tried reading it several times but i can't seem to decipher what you got going there. sorry

i think you think i have a carb though.

 

[PAzYearazzUP]

Ah, you know, I do not know the product is more a generic answer is universal. So she is old throttle body? Then yes, first thing is fuel rail pressure or pressure out the fuel pump. Say she is average 44PSI is give or take is somewhat average pressure to start.

Next is: What was the last good known shut down signal? This sort of restarts the car. The ECM has the last good known (last) fire of said cylinder in memory. So, what is the restart sensor is more like the ECM lost the start mode or morning mode map signal? Doubt it.

But if you really want to know... What is the compression on that puppy is I would not put a dime of time in it short of knowing if I chase my tail for a fuel pump and that was not it. Spark-Fuel-Compression is no one ever checks compression and clears that obstacle is keep throwing parts at it. Then the hindsight comes thru... Just saying.

 

[94GTCoupe]

check your codes.

from there we can at least get pointed in the right direction.

if you think it gets fuel,did you check for spark when the problem shows itself?

codes first,check for spark,than post up the results.

 

[HISSIN50]

PAzYearazzUP,

How did you go from carb references to EFI references in the same thread?



The EEC doesn't record the last cylinder upon shutdown. It uses the PIP reference upon start-up to find cylinder displacement.

I agree with Davis, et al. Start with codes.
When it won't start, check for spark, inj pulsing and your fuel pressure.

Does it act like it wants to catch, or does it easily crank, as is it's not even trying to light off?

 

[94GTMOOSE]

okay it hasn't done it since the other night and I've driving the car several times. I did check for codes and none came up except the code for the bad air bag sensor that i have in the front left of the car.

I remember when i first had this problem months ago, i asked someone at ford what else it could be with the ignition system he told me about a module that is known for going bad. I can't remember what one it was.

i replaced the throttle body to a FRPP 65mm unit with all new electronics a few months before the problem so i do think its those. The Mass Air meter is brand new as well.

I am thinking of installing a MSD 6AL ignition system with in the next few weeks but would like to fix this problem before i do.

 

[HISSIN50]

The Ford guy was probably talking about your TFI module. On 94-95 cars, it was relocated remotely and into a heat sink to help keep it cool.

The PIP is more likely to go out on our cars than the TFI.

You can remove your TFI and have it repeatedly bench tested (to heat it up) and see if it craps out.

 

[94GTMOOSE]

ok where is the TFI and how do i test it.

oh and where is the PIP? what does it do and how do i test that too?

i feel like we are getting some where now

 

[hotcobra03]

your pip is in the tfi thats on dizzy... i just had another starter in my car fail.it passed bench test untill they did 5 or 6 test than when it got hot it crapped out

 

[PAzYearazzUP]

PAzYearazzUP,

How did you go from carb references to EFI references in the same thread?

The EEC doesn't record the last cylinder upon shutdown. It uses the PIP reference upon start-up to find cylinder displacement.

I think I mentioned I did not know the product. I've not been under a hood since 1993. What do you mean by a reference needing a, 'cylinder displacement'? Is not the 0-to-5V reference signal needed no matter the bore size? Not trying to argue. You just schooled me on the PIP.


But the generic reference is there being that the EEC uses the PIP reference and would you agree that is about generic as FI gets is that 'memory on the restart'...
So, in the that respect, I would think in the generic that the computer can self diagnose itself as it shuts down that analog reference signal is to set the code number in it's place and say, "check me for the ohm's value." Is that about generic as say you are or could be wasting your time throwing parts at it is let it fail to know what part was really needed. Replace the part before it breaks is cook it 6-5 times and I guess that was the part that was the trouble because it seems it repaired the problem.

I would think the PIP is a memory to restart is how close was I to mention the restart is now an electrical reference, not fuel, not spark, not compression... But back to the generic computer has to have a memory to know how to restart itself is a generic name for say the morning map is the PIP...

Complex and simple is know how the car works as in the D-Jtronics is D-Ktronics is not the a/N and the D/J the same as is low speed jet is the D/J and the main jet is the a/N or Alpha/Numeric as in generally speaking we are on the same page but the legal verbage just changed is you cannot change the absolute, (way FI operates in the 'practical').

See, I am not trying to confuse is more me quantifying the steps needed to fire off the FI is like basichit.

 

[94GTMOOSE]

OK it just happened to me again but this time it did it while i was driving. While on the side of the road i decided to take the cap off and looked inside the dizzy and there was rust colored dust at the bottom under the rotor. also the pick ups were a lil rust colored too. i scraped them off and the car started. I really doubt that this could of been the problem but i have seen crazier things.

i am considering swaping out the dizzy for a better one. Do all the the electronics like the TFI PIP and what ever else is in there, come with a after market unit

PS i live in jersey and it freaking cold. i probly should of put on more then my PJs to pick up milk.

 

[PAzYearazzUP]

If you are from, Seas Cause Cuss it's that was caused by the smelly factory air contaminants. Not really, but I think you may just have poor contacts is scrub to bare metal. Did you find that cause?

If say you have a motor home (w/generator), it sits for awhile; the copper pickup bands around the coil winding housing are 'air-glaze-over'; they sort of seal off the commutator brushes, cause a sort of no start on the generator. So, you take the scotch-bright, rub the copper bare again so the lead pickups make a (better contact); "complete a circuit" >> You are back in business. Nothing crazy is burn out that part is just take a knife, scrape it bare so it has both sides exposed like clean transfer are your contacts. See, what happens is the heat in the hole (is why your mufflers rot out is water sits at the lowest spot); cools that hot air off is the condensation sets in, rusts the contacts is you are dead in the water. Try to really clean the surface contacts this time, report back cause you aRE THE MULE is save that part is just rusted up contacts.

 

[hotcobra03]

tell us more?

OK it just happened to me again but this time it did it while i was driving. While on the side of the road i decided to take the cap off and looked inside the dizzy and there was rust colored dust at the bottom under the rotor. also the pick ups were a lil rust colored too. i scraped them off and the car started. I really doubt that this could of been the problem but i have seen crazier things.

i am considering swaping out the dizzy for a better one. Do all the the electronics like the TFI PIP and what ever else is in there, come with a after market unit

PS i live in jersey and it freaking cold. i probly should of put on more then my PJs to pick up milk.

when it shut off...you tryed to restart and it just cranked but did not start,,,than how long of time did car sit before you firsttryed to restart after cleaning cap???
also the cold could have cooled off what was being a (pita)'are you sure you hear pump priming when the no-start happens??have you tryed another relay ?both fuel and eec ?? tfi is cheap enough just to have a back up as relays are really a fuse that can reset.30 bucks has to be worth it ,,i just moved from jersey to tx .better you than me i hate the cold

 

[94GTCoupe]

the TFI module is under the intake tube.it sits in a small heat sink.you could remove the whole thing and have it tested at autozone.have them test it a few times in a row to see if it takes a poop.

the PIP is located inside the dizzy.to replace it you have to remove the dizzy from the car and press off the drive gear,and disassemble the dizzy.
or,you can get a reman dizzy,but it's a crap shoot if the pip has been replaced during the rebuild.

cleaning the pip is a temporary (if at all) solution to your problem.i had the same symptoms as you a few years ago.
after many parts replaced,i was finally schooled about the pip (Hissin50).
replaced the dizzy with a reman and alls been good.

first test the TFI,check for spark.no spark is a good indication of a bad PIP.

but do somemore testing and post up the results.
these guys are much smarter than me and can help solve the problem.

(my moneys on the PIP)

 

[hotcobra03]

question?

the TFI module is under the intake tube.it sits in a small heat sink.you could remove the whole thing and have it tested at autozone.have them test it a few times in a row to see if it takes a poop.

the PIP is located inside the dizzy.to replace it you have to remove the dizzy from the car and press off the drive gear,and disassemble the dizzy.
or,you can get a reman dizzy,but it's a crap shoot if the pip has been replaced during the rebuild.

cleaning the pip is a temporary (if at all) solution to your problem.i had the same symptoms as you a few years ago.
after many parts replaced,i was finally schooled about the pip (Hissin50).
replaced the dizzy with a reman and alls been good.

first test the TFI,check for spark.no spark is a good indication of a bad PIP.

but do somemore testing and post up the results.
these guys are much smarter than me and can help solve the problem.

(my moneys on the PIP)

im i new student following the words of hission50 also...im in the other starting issuseand both are sounding similar.his wont start with key but will if jumped ..problem in tfi??or im seeing starter bypass wire but im also learning and a quick answer is good but ,it you have read it and feel its tfi ,i can read more into that before conclusion?

 

[94GTMOOSE]

Ok problem fixed. After replacing the tfi module, and it not fixing the problem. I bought a new MSD distributor. Car runs like a champ now. I was going to replace that part in the distributor that you guys told me about but instead I opted to replace the whole unit. Thanks for the help.