Engine Swapping 302 Block With 351w

ALDEEM · Jan 9, 2018

Hello everyone,

I have a 347 (302 HO factory roller block) with hydraulic roller cam, one of the pistons cracked due to knock and damaged the cylinder wall. I am now planning to swap the block with a 351W non-roller short block and I want to move as much parts from the 302 as possible. I know that I can use the heads, water pump, timing set and cover, long tube headers, flywheel, balancer and all accessories.
I am only wondering if I can use the camshaft, lifters, spider and rocker arms on the 351W? Or some of the parts?

Steel1 · Jan 9, 2018

You can use the cam/rockers if you want but the block would need to be drilled an tapped to accept spider tray.
Easiest way imo and what I did on my 393w is to get a set of link bar lifters.
You'll need to measure for new pushrods, length will be different from 347.

ALDEEM · Jan 9, 2018

Steel1 said:
You can use the cam/rockers if you want but the block would need to be drilled an tapped to accept spider tray.
Easiest way imo and what I did on my 393w is to get a set of link bar lifters.
You'll need to measure for new pushrods, length will be different from 347.

Thanks for the reply.
I can do the drilling and tapping part which should be relatively easy. In that case, I can simply take the same 302 lifters and install them in the 351 block?
I have looked for the link bar lifter and they are expensive, all are over $400.
I will get a pushrod length checker to get the correct length pushrods.

Steel1 · Jan 9, 2018

I would make sure you know exactly where to drill the block and the correct thread size.
I know the bolts are a specific size as to not cause interference with the cam.
But yes, If you do that you can use your 302 lifters and dog bones.

Gear grabber · Jan 9, 2018

I doubt the LT headers from the 302 will work with the 9.5 deck.

General karthief · Jan 9, 2018

There are issues with using stock 5.0 roller lifters in a non roller block, the lifter bores are shorter and require a small base circle cam, different push rods and some blocks do not have the boss for the spyder bolts that need to be drilled, this is, of course what I have gleaned from research not actual experience.
There is the more expensive link bar setup.
If any of this is amiss someone will surely correct me.

ALDEEM · Jan 10, 2018

Steel1 said:
I would make sure you know exactly where to drill the block and the correct thread size.
I know the bolts are a specific size as to not cause interference with the cam.
But yes, If you do that you can use your 302 lifters and dog bones.

I can use the old block for reference with precise measurements

Gear grabber said:
I doubt the LT headers from the 302 will work with the 9.5 deck.

I will try and if required I will put some dents on the headers to make it fit.

karthief said:
There are issues with using stock 5.0 roller lifters in a non roller block, the lifter bores are shorter and require a small base circle cam, different push rods and some blocks do not have the boss for the spyder bolts that need to be drilled, this is, of course what I have gleaned from research not actual experience.
There is the more expensive link bar setup.
If any of this is amiss someone will surely correct me.

Do you think this will be visible by installing and rotating the engine or does that effect the lifters at higher RPM?

General karthief · Jan 10, 2018

ALDEEM said:
I will try and if required I will put some dents on the headers to make it fit.

I think you will need 351 swap headers, the 351 is taller

ALDEEM said:
Do you think this will be visible by installing and rotating the engine or does that effect the lifters at higher RPM?

The roller lifters are taller and the lifter bores in a non roller block are short, I believe there is oiling problems when using a regular roller cam because the oil passages will not line up, thats why a small base circle cam is needed,
Here is a link to an article by Mark Houlahan, just kind of an overview.
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/1307-roller-camshaft-conversions-engine-upgrade/
He doesn't get into all the pitfalls.
Personally I would find a roller block to start with or buck up for link bar setup.

Steel1 · Jan 10, 2018

Good points by Karthief.
I also don't think 302 headers will work, I used 351w swap headers.
You'll need a different oil pan if going into a fox, I used a FRPP 351w swap pan.

ALDEEM · Jan 10, 2018

karthief said:
I think you will need 351 swap headers, the 351 is taller

The roller lifters are taller and the lifter bores in a non roller block are short, I believe there is oiling problems when using a regular roller cam because the oil passages will not line up, thats why a small base circle cam is needed,
Here is a link to an article by Mark Houlahan, just kind of an overview.
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/1307-roller-camshaft-conversions-engine-upgrade/
He doesn't get into all the pitfalls.
Personally I would find a roller block to start with or buck up for link bar setup.

In this case I should go with link bar lifters at least I would have a wider range of camshafts for future. The main issue I am having is the shipping cost as I am located in the US, my best option is this engine as the shipping price from summit is reasonable compared to others. I have found a lot of bare and short roller blocks but they either do not ship international or the shipping is way too high.
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hpe-sp09/overview/make/ford

What is exactly the problem with the headers clearance? is it because of the collector setting too high? if this is the case I can take it to an exhaust shop and have them lower it by 1-2" because again I have already spent a lot on shipping the header so I do not want to pay that again

Steel1 said:
Good points by Karthief.
I also don't think 302 headers will work, I used 351w swap headers.
You'll need a different oil pan if going into a fox, I used a FRPP 351w swap pan.

It is actually going into a 68 coupe. For the pan I would be fine with a front sump. From you experience, what was interfering with the headers?

Steel1 · Jan 11, 2018

I would imagine 302 headers would be too short, not reaching the mid-pipe connection, given
that the 351w deck height is taller,
But the swap headers I used are meant for a Fox platform so I'm not sure if it would apply to your 68

General karthief · Jan 11, 2018

Well this is a horse of a different year, it would have have been nice to know that you were not working with a fox, since you posted your question on a fox forum the participants are thinking fox thoughts, now the engine discussion does not change and the header issue is the same also. The 351 windsor engine is taller and wider than the 302 (5.0) windsor.
I failed to ask the important question, if you need an expert answer on the header question go to the classic forums here and they can give you their thoughts

ALDEEM · Jan 18, 2018

Steel1 said:
I would imagine 302 headers would be too short, not reaching the mid-pipe connection, given
that the 351w deck height is taller,
But the swap headers I used are meant for a Fox platform so I'm not sure if it would apply to your 68

I believe it would have the same issue when I checked, it will be a bit high. I will take my headers and have them lower it after I install the engine and take measurements. I already have an aftermarket H pipe which has a lot of room for adjustments.

karthief said:
Well this is a horse of a different year, it would have have been nice to know that you were not working with a fox, since you posted your question on a fox forum the participants are thinking fox thoughts, now the engine discussion does not change and the header issue is the same also. The 351 windsor engine is taller and wider than the 302 (5.0) windsor.
I failed to ask the important question, if you need an expert answer on the header question go to the classic forums here and they can give you their thoughts

Sorry for not mentioning that, I thought this would be a more suitable place to discuss about the engine itself, except for the headers clearance . I have already checked and I would be fine as the headers will clear everything, I only need to lower the collector.

CarMichael Angelo · Jan 24, 2018

It's not only the height of the deck that will cause the header collector, and maybe tubes 4,&8 to hit, but a 351 needs a tighter turn coming out of the port. A 5.0 header will be impossible to fit to a 351 in the car.

Engine Swapping 302 Block With 351w

ALDEEM

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Steel1

Mustang Master

ALDEEM

Member

Steel1

Mustang Master

Gear grabber

Well-Known Member

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

ALDEEM

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General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Steel1

Mustang Master

ALDEEM

Member

Steel1

Mustang Master

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

ALDEEM

Member

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

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Engine Swapping 302 Block With 351w

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Mustang Master

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Mustang Master

Well-Known Member

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Member

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Mustang Master

Member

Mustang Master

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Member

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

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