T5 - shifter won't move

[TheUser]

Pulled tranny to put the speedo gear back on (it came loose).

Long story short...I put it all back together and got it back in the car, added fluid and the shifter will not move. I thought it might be the clutch adjustment, so I messed w/ that and no luck. I ended up pulling the tranny back out and threw the shifter on there...shifter won't move.

It's not the shifter stops because it worked fine before and I haven't messed w/ them. I pulled the offset lever, detent ball, and spring back out and made sure the little detent plate was clear...it appears to be.

I put fluid in the detent plate to lubricate. The shifter will go to the right in neutral, but that's about it. That's the grove of the detent plate that's the widest.

What's the next step?

Should it shift through the gears w/ the tranny out of the car?

I can take pics, but chances are the person who knows what to do will know what it all looks like w/o pictures

 

[Lawbreaker5.0]

yes it should shift through all gears outside the car. I had a similar problem when i replaced my drive gear. it ended up being the lid, it got un aligned. But i took the lid off and you didn't. I assume? The only way to know for sure would be to lift the lid and realign everything. I have some pics that might help, Let me know.

 

[foxforce33]

Pulled tranny to put the speedo gear back on (it came loose).

Long story short...I put it all back together and got it back in the car, added fluid and the shifter will not move. I thought it might be the clutch adjustment, so I messed w/ that and no luck. I ended up pulling the tranny back out and threw the shifter on there...shifter won't move.

It's not the shifter stops because it worked fine before and I haven't messed w/ them. I pulled the offset lever, detent ball, and spring back out and made sure the little detent plate was clear...it appears to be.

I put fluid in the detent plate to lubricate. The shifter will go to the right in neutral, but that's about it. That's the grove of the detent plate that's the widest.

What's the next step?

Should it shift through the gears w/ the tranny out of the car?

I can take pics, but chances are the person who knows what to do will know what it all looks like w/o pictures

Maybe I'm not understanding, but why did you pull the tranny to put the speedo gear on? Isn't it accessible from the driver side with the tranny installed?

 

[Mustang5L5]

That should not happen. What exactly did you replace? The speedo driven gear inside? Did you remove the top cover or just yank the tailhousing

 

[v8only]

assuming you pulled the tailshaft off, what happened was that the shifter rail for the lid moved on you..probably got pushed in, then you prob turned the rail to line the hole back up, and wound up putting it in gear with the tail off.

if you did pull the tail off, then now you need to pull the tail off again. This time you'll likely have to pull the lid off, put the trans back in neutral, then put the forks and rail back in the lid in neutral position, then button it back together again

 

[TheUser]

Yep - removed the tailhousing to replace the speedo drive gear inside the tranny.

I ended up finding lawbreakers thread w/ many helpful pictures. I pulled the top cover and managed to get it into neutral after way too much messing w/ it.

I put the tailhousing back on and since the "shaft" that the offset lever goes on had the hole turned to the left, I moved it back and forth to get it to allow that hole to go to the top....essentially undoing all I had done to get it into neutral.

I bolted it all back up and surprise, the shifter only goes forward and backward, not side to side and I can only get it into what I'd assume is 3rd and 4th.

I'm guessing I'll need to remove the tailshaft and top cover again and put it all back to neutral, but my question is:

How do I keep it in neutral and get the offset lever aligned where I can install the roll pin? When in neutral, the hole on mine is a little to the left

 

[Lawbreaker5.0]

I'm sure you can find it online but i have an assembly/disassembly manuel that sorta help me out. I can email it to you if you pm me your email address. It basically says to have the roll pin hole 90 degrees out from up top. You can only turn it 90 degrees one way from the center. With the lid aligned you drop the forks on the synchros and slide the lid over. Then you turn the shifter shaft 90 degrees back up. You might have to push or pull JUST A LITTLE to get it to line back up. Then throw the tailshaft on without letting the shifter shaft turn sideways. I believe if it pops in its ok, becuase everything is aligned. I might be wrong and i'm sure V8only or mustangML5 will clarify it if i'm wrong because both of them have helped me out in the past. I always do a mock up without rtv and throw a screw(same size as the roll pin) and throw the shifter on and make sure. Its prob not necessary, but i like to do it. I only put on a couple bolts on the lid, shaft and shifter.

 

[v8only]

when that rod is in neutral, and the forks are in neutral, the rod itself will go in and out of the lid and left to right without a problem. You run into issues when putting the tailshaft on, and accidently pushing that shift rod in, then if the rod gets turned to the left or right and you pull the rod out again, it's putting it in gear. The trick is to get the forks in the neutral position, and have the hole in the rod pointing straight up. Slide the tail on and be sure the hole keeps pointing straight up...so long as the hole always stays up, it won't slide into gear on you and get in the wrong position.


this is the position the forks MUST be in when you put the lid on

make sure you bench shift the thing before installing it
as long as it shifts on the bench, you'll be fine

 

[Lawbreaker5.0]

The only reason I like keeping the rod 90 out is the shift forks stay in a good position when lowering it down

 

[TheUser]

So I've pulled this thing apart and put it back together probably around 10 times this morning. I think I finally may have it.

It shifts into 1st through 4th, but I can't seem to get it to go into 5th or Reverse. I'm GUESSING it probably should also go into 5th/Reverse, but I'm HOPING that it shouldn't have to. I can't see why it shouldn't though.

It's not real smooth now, my guess is partially because it's not steady as it's sitting on the tailgate of my truck instead of being bolted in the car.

Any reason why it would go into 1-4 and not 5 or R?

 

[TheUser]

I haven't put the fluid back in it...would that cause it to not go into 5th/reverse? I've shifted it and shifted it and shifted it some more and I have very little issue getting it into 1-4, but I can't get it into 5th or reverse at all.

For the cover to line up, I had to have that 5th gear shaft lined up correctly, right?

I'd just pull it back apart and look at it, but I had so much trouble getting it to work at all, I'd hate to pull it back apart for nothing...and I don't even really know what I'm looking at as the culprit.

I now know more about T-5's than when I started, which is cool, but I have a LONG way to go.

 

[v8only]

I haven't put the fluid back in it...would that cause it to not go into 5th/reverse? I've shifted it and shifted it and shifted it some more and I have very little issue getting it into 1-4, but I can't get it into 5th or reverse at all.

For the cover to line up, I had to have that 5th gear shaft lined up correctly, right?

I'd just pull it back apart and look at it, but I had so much trouble getting it to work at all, I'd hate to pull it back apart for nothing...and I don't even really know what I'm looking at as the culprit.

I now know more about T-5's than when I started, which is cool, but I have a LONG way to go.

it's GOT to shift into 5th and reverse out of the car, or there is still something wrong with it. My guess this time is that it's something with the 5th fork/shift rod

 

[old_blue]

the E-clip holding the 5th/reverse gear on probably came off. not all that uncommon, but you have to take the tail back off.

 

[TheUser]

E clip is still there.

Pulled the tailshaft and top cover back off. Here's the deal...it's in neutral...I can turn the input shaft and it spins the output shaft.

My issue arises when I try to put the cover back on...I know before I could move the syncro's...I can still move the 1-2 syncro, but the 3-4 one (on the left) will not budge at all. I hesitated, but ended up using a screwdriver and a prybar to try to move it, but it WILL NOT MOVE. Consequently, I the shift forks are not lining up w/ the syncro's.

Any idea why this thing will not move?

I attached a couple pics

 

[v8only]

E clip is still there.

Pulled the tailshaft and top cover back off. Here's the deal...it's in neutral...I can turn the input shaft and it spins the output shaft.

My issue arises when I try to put the cover back on...I know before I could move the syncro's...I can still move the 1-2 syncro, but the 3-4 one (on the left) will not budge at all. I hesitated, but ended up using a screwdriver and a prybar to try to move it, but it WILL NOT MOVE. Consequently, I the shift forks are not lining up w/ the syncro's.

Any idea why this thing will not move?

I attached a couple pics

That's not neutral, the input must turn indepentdently of the output shaft...

in the two pictures above, you've got it locked into third gear.

this is neutral...in your picture, the 3/4 slider on the left is jammed against third gear, which means you're in third gear. Grab the slider with your hand and slide it to the middle position like in my picture, then you should be golden

 

[TheUser]

by slider, I assume you mean Synchronizer? That's my problem...it will not move. I've tried to slide it w/ my hand and pry it w/ a prybar and screwdriver and it will not budge. How do I get it unstuck?

I'm thinking about just giving up and taking it to a tranny shop, but I really don't want to do that.

 

[v8only]

by slider, I assume you mean Synchronizer? That's my problem...it will not move. I've tried to slide it w/ my hand and pry it w/ a prybar and screwdriver and it will not budge. How do I get it unstuck?

I'm thinking about just giving up and taking it to a tranny shop, but I really don't want to do that.

it's the big ring with the groove in it on the left that's the 3/4 slider. the actual syncro's are below it.

if you absolutely can't dislodge it, perhaps the keyes are jammed....

punch the pin out holding the 5th fork on, take the clip off of 5th gear, take 5th gear and the fork off.

pull the bearing retainer off the front, gently twist and pull the input shaft until it comes out of the trans. If you loose any of the insert needle bearings pulling it out, just spin the trans upside down and shake them out.

once the input shaft is out, pull up on the mainshaft, and slide it up and out of the trans toward the front of the trans.

B4 you do that, once the input is removed, you may be able to get a look at the keys before pulling the main or 5th off, just pull the input out first, and this will expose the inner hub and syncro keys to that slider assembly.

If it's jammed, it's pretty easy to remove, it's just pressed on. Get a press clamp, available at harbor freight cheap, clamp it below the slider, or below third gear, and press it off, or use a sledge on the bottom of the press clamp and wack off the slider assembly. Put it on a bench, pull the slider assembly apart, reset the keys and springs, then put the slider assembly back on. It's real simple. You can use a big socket on the top of the slider assembly and wack it on with a hammer.

here are some good pics from a tech article I wrote

lube your carbon fiber syncro and place it over the top of third gear as shown

-next, grab your 3/4 slider assembly and place it on top of third gear..make sure tabs in syncro line up with the assembly. Press it onto the shaft. OR you can use a big socket and tap it onto the shaft with a hammer

-next oil up the flat bearing, and install FIRST the flat bearing race, then put down the flat bearing on top of it

final shot

-Shown here are the 3/4 slider on the left with the type of key it needs, and the 5th slider on the right. The inner thin black springs wind opposite directions on each side, just like you did first. Place the inner part of the slider down on the table, then the outer part....(there may be three sets of three grooves on the inside of the outer slider, if there is, line it up where the key will go. Once your inner and outer slider are on the table, THEN insert the keys. When the keys are inserted, install one of the springs onto the assembly with the point of the spring going into a key, carefully pick it up, turn it over, and insert the point of the other spring into the same key on the other side, winding the opposite direction

 

[v8only]

a view of what it looks like without the input shaft on

 

[TheUser]

I managed to get the synchro to move into the middle (neutral), but if I spin the input shaft, the output shaft turns too...it looks just like the picture posted. Turning the output shaft, the input shaft doesn't always turn.

I'll prob. just throw it back together and see if it will work this time. I don't ever know when I'm going to have time to work on it, so my posts are random.

 

[v8only]

the slight amount of friction caused by the syncro's even in neutral will cause the other end of the shaft to sometimes spin, even in neutral.

So long as you can hold your hand firm on either shaft, and keep one shaft from moving, while spinning the other, then you're in neutral and good to go.

those sliders can get sticky/tricky sometimes, it's normal...sounds like you're ok