jstreet0204 said:I don't think there is a correct statement in this entire quote.
1) Richer (to a point) = cooler cylinder temps = safer = less power.
2) Leaner (to a point) = hotter cylinder temps = more prone to detonation = more power.
3) Stoich is the "perfect" ratio of air and fuel to allow all of the fuel to be burt. This will always be around 14.7 to 1 for gasoline.
4) A richer or leaner tune will not affect fuel economy during normal driving. A tune will only change the WOT fuel settings.
UDTBadkarma said:Engines that run rich will get more power. You're gettinga little more gas and it will create more power performance, but your fuel economy will be worse.
And vice-versa. A lean engine will get better fuel economy because you are using less gas per combustion cycle, but you will not make performance power like that. Thats why the "stoich" ratio is generally geared towards 14.7:1 A/F ratio, but most guys on here run a 13.1:1 i think A/F. Making the engine run more rich and making more power.
QDRHRSE said:What are you talking about? Leaner = more power. Air is what makes the gas go boom. More air - more boom. 13:1 is dangerously lean for a an injected Mustang. 11.5 -12.00 about right for a Mustang at WOT. 14.7 is where all Mustangs will be at when they idle- @ The term "stoichometric" identifies the ratio offering the most complete burn. For unleaded gasoline, it is 14.67:1.
You are fired as my tuner!
QDRHRSE said:What are you talking about? Leaner = more power. Air is what makes the gas go boom. More air - more boom. 13:1 is dangerously lean for a an injected Mustang. 11.5 -12.00 about right for a Mustang at WOT. 14.7 is where all Mustangs will be at when they idle- @ The term "stoichometric" identifies the ratio offering the most complete burn. For unleaded gasoline, it is 14.67:1.
stangGT97 said:I agree with this guy... "Lean" isnt always based directly off of the stoichiometric ratio, it can vary depending on engine set up. As most FI guys find out, the safest tune for their cars is somewhere around 12:1, and anything around 13:1 and over is getting too lean; ie, there is too much air per unit fuel, combustion chamber temps can get too high and the engine is more prone to detonation. N/A guys can run at 13:1, and for them, "lean" might be somewhere around 15:1, but like I said, it all depends on the nature of the engine. UDTBadkarma, enough with the attitude man! Just because your text book says something doesn't mean its 100% right all the time, and you sure as hell don't need to be that condescending to a fellow Stangnetter...
UDTBadkarma said:Condescending!?!? have you read my last like 5 threads on this forum. People are out right attackign me and my information!
droptopponynj said:says he has nitrous in his profile page.
Man you've still got a lot to learn. Your books are correct, but what you are missing is that rich and lean are relative terms. Your book is talking about normal driving conditions. 14.7 is what the PCM will strive for during normal driving and idle. Wide Open Throttle has different values. Ideally 13.1 is about where a N/A car will make its best power safely. The stock setting is 12:1 wich is "RICHER". 12:1 is safer but makes less power. 14.7:1 would be too "LEAN" under WOT. When people have their cars tuned, the tuner only adjust the WOT fuel settings, not the normal driving settings.UDTBadkarma said:I got a kick out of this post. Ok dont worry i wouldn't hire you either. 13.1:1 is RICH not lean buddy. Which is why it makes more power. That means its 13 parts air to 1 part gas. As opposed to 15:1 which would be lean. I think thats the common misconception on this forum...that you guys dont know what the numbers actually mean...
Ok i guess i'm going to just have to show you
Hello, welcome to Lincoln Tech:
Let me just flip to my Fuels Class chapter....oh look, useful information on the 1st page!!
Lets zoom in here...
And page 2, just for a refference for some of you guys
And finally some extra information about compression ratios if anyone was wondering...
Now i did that as politely as i could... hope you all learned something
GT04Mustang said:
My cars MAKES AS OF 7 days ago on ST Performance's Dyno 269.6 RWHP N/A and 318 rwtrq N/A!!!
On a 40 shot of DRY nitrous the c ar made 297.6 rwhp (40 shot) and 371 rwtrq!!!
On a 100 shot of dry nitrous the car made 359.8 rwhp (100 shot) and 462.8 rwtrq!
The car has NO internal mods, has BBK LT's, BBK Catless H-pipe, K and N Filter, and a Hypertech Hand held tuner for the N/A RUNS! 3 consecutive runs all yielded WITHIN .3 hp of each other N/A ,and both the 40 and 100 shot are within 2 rwhp of each other!!!! Yes i run the car WITH the tune and NITROUS!!! NO PROBLEMS WHAT SO EVER!!! Think i'm lieing ask DOCGTO (moderator for the '05 forum) .... i was Racing at SGMP with him and the GTO club this PAST Friday and he knows me and the car very well, because he helped me put it all on!!!! And the 12.47 at 114 mph ... that was on a 40 shot... the car trapped at 117.9 mph in the 1/4 this past friday with a 20 mph HEADWIND!!!! Ask DOCGTO... he saw the run.....the car has ran 12.93 at 106 N/A....which DOCGTO has also witnessed!!! And i beleive the 12.47 at 114 was disputeed on here until the video was posted... search for it... it's on here. Or go here
http://www.cgfyb.com/cgfybforum/viewtopic.php?t=281
That's my car....and .... silence.......
jstreet0204 said:Man you've still got a lot to learn. Your books are correct, but what you are missing is that rich and lean are relative terms. Your book is talking about normal driving conditions. 14.7 is what the PCM will strive for during normal driving and idle. Wide Open Throttle has different values. Ideally 13.1 is about where a N/A car will make its best power safely. The stock setting is 12:1 wich is "RICHER". 12:1 is safer but makes less power. 14.7:1 would be too "LEAN" under WOT. When people have their cars tuned, the tuner only adjust the WOT fuel settings, not the normal driving settings.
UDTBadkarma said:Correct. But you still said 13:1 was lean...which its not
Well maybe you can account it to the fact that the Gear Box has been flushed twice, and the rear-end has been flushed twice and is running royalk purple, and i chg the pil at EVERY 2000 miles never exceeding 2300 miles, and it's replaced with Catrol FULL SYNTHETIC 10W-30. The plugs have been changed 5 times now at every 6k miles and gapped accordfinly to .037. The air filter is cleaned every oil chg. and the coolant system is flucshed 3 times now. I don't car what you think about my numbers track or dyno. I make 270 N/A and run 12.9's and 13.0's ALL DAY LONG. I run (on a 40 SHOT which dynoed less than 40 to the wheels) 12.4's ALL DAY LONG!!! Don't like tuff...you call BS on anything you don't agree with. Ever think that it might be possable. I don't care what you've seen, i'm NOT leaving out ANYTHING OR ANY MODS!!! I make what i make...ADRENLN said:12.9 na is more like it. however with you mods that hp is just to high. i mean dynos are different so who knows. all i gotta say is id like to get on your dyno, my numbers would be sick.
l/t: i picked up 15rwhp.....ill give you at least that.
mid pipe: i got about 10 for my mid and catback.......so ill give you 10 for the h pipe.
kn: nothing
programmer: im not sure what i got from my dyno tune which is better but it was probably only 5-10. you have a programmer ill give you 5 if your lucky for the sake of arguement ill give you 10.
so you got 15 + 10 + 10 = 35.
stock gt = 225rwhp give or take a couple. 225+35= 260rwhp.
you got an extra 10rwhp not accounted for?
if you want to argue that your car could have pulled 230rwhp stock its possible, ive seen that. however it really dont change the results, because theres no way in hell you got 10 rwhp from a programmer. so your still 10rwhp too high.
thats really not super off and the dyno could facter in but your number is still a bit far fetched.
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