The End Is Here

There do seem to be a number of tears being shed amongst us SN95/New Edge owners this last couple of weeks.

Well, I went lean and blew a valve...I'll make a thread about that. Matt, you don't need to build an engine. The one you have lasted 9 years. I'm assuming tho that it wasn't supercharged all that time. So why not just buy a used engine and have it installed? Or if you're daring you could drop the cradle, pull the oil pan off, and just replace the rod/piston, lol! But still you could find a used 2V with low miles for around $600. Take the blower off yourself and have a shop do an engine install which should only run you about $1K. Then re-install the blower and you're good to go.

Lamesauce. Could I buy your supercharger from you? Im about to graduate college and I plan on supercharging my Mustang when I get my job.

Yup, broken piston ring land. I've done that twice now. Usually caused by a little bit of detonation, doesn't take much when those lands are as thin as they are.

I can completely appreciate wanting to upgrade a bit. I fully plan to get out of my car and into a Terminator sometime soon. Either a Cobra or a Mach 1 are huge improvements over what you've got, and honestly a Mach 1 is a lot of bang for your buck, especially considering how good they look.

That being said, you can build your current motor to hold 600-700 rwhp for less than $1000, assuming you do the work yourself. 2012 Boss 302 rods, 03/04 Cobra pistons, rings, bearings, gaskets, machine work, and that's pretty much it. Not as hard, complicated, or expensive as many people think.

sneaky98gt said:

Yup, broken piston ring land. I've done that twice now. Usually caused by a little bit of detonation, doesn't take much when those lands are as thin as they are.

I can completely appreciate wanting to upgrade a bit. I fully plan to get out of my car and into a Terminator sometime soon. Either a Cobra or a Mach 1 are huge improvements over what you've got, and honestly a Mach 1 is a lot of bang for your buck, especially considering how good they look.

That being said, you can build your current motor to hold 600-700 rwhp for less than $1000, assuming you do the work yourself. 2012 Boss 302 rods, 03/04 Cobra pistons, rings, bearings, gaskets, machine work, and that's pretty much it. Not as hard, complicated, or expensive as many people think.

Click to expand...

Maybe not for less than $1000. Machine work is gonna cost about $500. Rings, bearings, and gaskets are gonna cost another $500 for the quality stuff. Boss rods ain't going for cheap. I'd say probably a few hundred bucks. Cobra pistons will be about a couple hundred dollars. Add in bearing grease, ARP bolts and studs, other odds and ends, and a built engine done right can cost about $2K even with you doing the work yourself. What makes it ideal is that you can do a little at a time as parts come in.

Three50won said:

Maybe not for less than $1000. Machine work is gonna cost about $500. Rings, bearings, and gaskets are gonna cost another $500 for the quality stuff. Boss rods ain't going for cheap. I'd say probably a few hundred bucks. Cobra pistons will be about a couple hundred dollars. Add in bearing grease, ARP bolts and studs, other odds and ends, and a built engine done right can cost about $2K even with you doing the work yourself. What makes it ideal is that you can do a little at a time as parts come in.

Click to expand...

I personally did it for around $850, and I wasn't especially thrifty or anything.

- Boss 302 rods were $170 shipped for the set about a year ago (brand new from Ford), looks like they are about $180 now. (If you get lucky, you might can find a set of 03 Cobra rods [which are stronger / good to every bit of 1000 horsepower) in this price range, but that isn't too common).
- Cobra pistons were $50 for the set used. I see them for around this price fairly regularly.
- Rings were $120.
- Rod bearings were $70, main bearings were $60. King OEM replacement. Same bearings in some 750 rwhp cars in my area, no problems.
- Rod bolts came with the Boss rods, main bolts were $35 for a new OEM Ford set.
- FRPP head gaskets, exhaust gaskets, and OEM Ford head bolts were $85.
- ARP crank bolt was $30.
- Intake, timing cover, and oil pan gaskets, rear seal and slinger were in the $50 range (IIRC, definitely wasn't more than that).
- I think I spent $5 on assembly lube.
- Machine work was $105 total ($80 to hone and clean the block, $25 to polish the crank).
- New oil and coolant is no more than $50.

That comes to $830. Even if I add in the amount I spent on new tools (ring expander, ring compressor, and torque wrench from Harbor Freight, and ring filer, bore gauge, and Plastigage from Amazon), I'm still under $1000. I suppose if I included my beer cost over the several weeks this took me, that'd definitely push me over the $1000 mark.

ARP hardwear is expensive and will add significant cost to a build, but it is completely unnecessary for a 600-700 rwhp build (which is all the Cobra pistons are good to anyway). I got an ARP crank bolt because it was only $5 more than an OEM one, and my OEM one had been on and off quite a few times when the rebuild happened. If you get a quote for $500 from a machine shop for basic work, you need to find somewhere else to take it to. Even to have it bored (mine wasn't), my machine shop only charges $25 / hole ($200 total), versus $10 / hole for honing. My total bill was only $300, and it included installing new valve guides, a 3 angle valve job, resurfacing the heads, resurfacing the blower, and assembling / pressure testing the heads, in addition to the honing, crank polishing, and hot tanking.

There's another machine shop I just recently found that's closer to me, and I've got some prices from them for my DD Civic; they were pretty similar on the pricing to the shop I took my Mustang, so I know the above prices aren't a fluke or anything. Just have to call around a little bit.

I've got receipts and/or current product links I can post up for all these items if someone really things I'm being dishonest about any of this.

Bottom line: doing it for $1000 is not only possible, it's actually relatively easy.

sneaky98gt said:

I personally did it for around $850, and I wasn't especially thrifty or anything.

- Boss 302 rods were $170 shipped for the set about a year ago (brand new from Ford), looks like they are about $180 now. (If you get lucky, you might can find a set of 03 Cobra rods [which are stronger / good to every bit of 1000 horsepower) in this price range, but that isn't too common).
- Cobra pistons were $50 for the set used. I see them for around this price fairly regularly.
- Rings were $120.
- Rod bearings were $70, main bearings were $60. King OEM replacement. Same bearings in some 750 rwhp cars in my area, no problems.
- Rod bolts came with the Boss rods, main bolts were $35 for a new OEM Ford set.
- FRPP head gaskets, exhaust gaskets, and OEM Ford head bolts were $85.
- ARP crank bolt was $30.
- Intake, timing cover, and oil pan gaskets, rear seal and slinger were in the $50 range (IIRC, definitely wasn't more than that).
- I think I spent $5 on assembly lube.
- Machine work was $105 total ($80 to hone and clean the block, $25 to polish the crank).
- New oil and coolant is no more than $50.

That comes to $830. Even if I add in the amount I spent on new tools (ring expander, ring compressor, and torque wrench from Harbor Freight, and ring filer, bore gauge, and Plastigage from Amazon), I'm still under $1000. I suppose if I included my beer cost over the several weeks this took me, that'd definitely push me over the $1000 mark.

ARP hardwear is expensive and will add significant cost to a build, but it is completely unnecessary for a 600-700 rwhp build (which is all the Cobra pistons are good to anyway). I got an ARP crank bolt because it was only $5 more than an OEM one, and my OEM one had been on and off quite a few times when the rebuild happened. If you get a quote for $500 from a machine shop for basic work, you need to find somewhere else to take it to. Even to have it bored (mine wasn't), my machine shop only charges $25 / hole ($200 total), versus $10 / hole for honing. My total bill was only $300, and it included installing new valve guides, a 3 angle valve job, resurfacing the heads, resurfacing the blower, and assembling / pressure testing the heads, in addition to the honing, crank polishing, and hot tanking.

There's another machine shop I just recently found that's closer to me, and I've got some prices from them for my DD Civic; they were pretty similar on the pricing to the shop I took my Mustang, so I know the above prices aren't a fluke or anything. Just have to call around a little bit.

I've got receipts and/or current product links I can post up for all these items if someone really things I'm being dishonest about any of this.

Bottom line: doing it for $1000 is not only possible, it's actually relatively easy.

Click to expand...

I'd love for someone to actually try this and show me the receipts afterwards. Or, I'd love for someone to post links with those actual prices. Your pricing on gaskets alone are way off. Intake manifold gaskets alone are about $50. And if you think you're getting a block fully machined for $80 then, once again, I'd like to know which shop is doing the work.

Boss 302 rods are gonna run around $400 minimum. 03-04 Cobra pistons are gonna run you like $200 bare minimum in used condition if you can even find them that cheap. All the gaskets for a rebuild are gonna be at least $300. Bearings are gonna be close to $200 for the quality ones. ARP bolts are gonna be a couple hundred at least. Machine work, I mean a full hone deck bore, is gonna run about $500. And all that is not even including all the little odds and ends and bolts and other stuff you're gonna need. Trust me, building a block from the ground up is gonna cost a good amount more than $1K. That is if you do it the right way and build it to last. Even after it is built you're still gonna have to add in all the fluids (oil and antifreeze). If you're gonna do it, price it out first and then factor in an extra few hundred bucks for miscellaneous stuff. And don't even think about skimping out. I built two really strong blocks. One was an aluminum 4.6 and the other was a 5.4. And this was back in 06 when things were a bit cheaper. The block and machine work alone came out to more than $1K. Even if you use your block to save money, getting everything you need is gonna cost a bit. The advantage is that you can take your time and do it little by little.

Three50won said:

I'd love for someone to actually try this and show me the receipts afterwards. Or, I'd love for someone to post links with those actual prices. Your pricing on gaskets alone are way off. Intake manifold gaskets alone are about $50. And if you think you're getting a block fully machined for $80 then, once again, I'd like to know which shop is doing the work.

Click to expand...

You really gonna make me do this, dude?

Ok, you asked for it.

Three50won said:

Boss 302 rods are gonna run around $400 minimum.

Click to expand...

CONNECTING ROD for 2012 Ford Mustang|CR3Z-6200-A Part number CR3Z-6200-A. $21.95 each, or $175.60.

Strike 1.

Three50won said:

03-04 Cobra pistons are gonna run you like $200 bare minimum in used condition if you can even find them that cheap.

Click to expand...

F.S. Stock 03-04 Cobra rods/pistons

FS: forged 04 cobra pistons

03,04 Cobra Pistons $100 plus shipping

Just from a couple minutes of searching. I bought mine from a local Mustang performance shop. They build folks' perfectly running Cobra motors, and the internals often get tossed in the trash. Got mine for $50. And I had a couple other folks looking to sell for around $50 back when I was looking. I have looked for a half hour now, but I cannot find my receipt for those pistons.

Regardless, this one is harder to prove since we're talking used parts, and some folks get deals while others don't. So I'll let you off without a strike here. In doing my google search earlier, I saw an easy dozen sets for $150-$200 asking price (although didn't see many/any sold above that). So we'll go with your number of $200.

Three50won said:

All the gaskets for a rebuild are gonna be at least $300.

Click to expand...

What gaskets?

The intake manifold ones for $22.79? More Information for FEL-PRO MS921213

The timing cover ones for $17.61? More Information for FEL-PRO TCS458692

The oil pan one for $19.95? More Information for FEL-PRO OS30725R

The rear main for $9.05? More Information for FEL-PRO BS40620

The headgasket and exhaust manifold ones for $90.20? (which includes new head bolts) HEAD CHANGING KIT 2V

And I seriously can't think of any more. That's a total of $159.60.

Strike 2.

Three50won said:

Bearings are gonna be close to $200 for the quality ones.

Click to expand...

King CR868SI - OEM Replacement Rod Bearing Set for Ford 4.6L / 5.4L Engines $39.99

King MB5280SI - OEM Replacement Main Bearing Set for Ford 4.6L / 5.4L Windsor $54.99

Strike 3.

And before you come back and say "Oh, those aren't quality ones", go find me a single example of them failing. There's a many a single digit cars around here running King OEM bearings with 0 issues for years and hundreds of passes. The guy who ported my blower said he has put these in dozens of 600+ horsepower Cobras without a single failure. My 500 rwhp car now has about 100 passes and more than 10,000 HARD miles on these bearings with no issues.

Remember, we're only talking a 600 horsepower motor build here. Also remember that an 03 Cobra doesn't have any special, high performance type of bearing, and they easily make 600+.

Three50won said:

ARP bolts are gonna be a couple hundred at least.

Click to expand...

Correct (for a change). But did you miss the part about ARP stuff not being needed until well past 600 rwhp? Since I'm sure you don't believe me, here it is straight from the mouth of one of the most knowledgeable people to ever touch a 4.6: When To Use ARP Bolts and Studs

I personally have never heard or read about someone breaking OEM hardware at any power level. Other things break well before they do.

Three50won said:

Machine work, I mean a full hone deck bore, is gonna run about $500.

Click to expand...

I'll come back to this later.

Three50won said:

And all that is not even including all the little odds and ends and bolts and other stuff you're gonna need.

Click to expand...

Such as? I listed all of it earlier. All of the bolts are reusable except the head, main, rod, and crank bolt(s).

Three50won said:

Trust me, building a block from the ground up is gonna cost a good amount more than $1K. That is if you do it the right way and build it to last.

Click to expand...

I have laid it all out right here in front of you on exactly how I did exactly that. If you simply refuse to believe what I'm showing you, then our conversation is over, as it's clear you're not willing accept that you're wrong.

Three50won said:

Even after it is built you're still gonna have to add in all the fluids (oil and antifreeze).

Click to expand...

I budgeted $50 for that in my total earlier. Last I checked, a 5 quart jug of oil is about $25, a filter is about $5, and 2 gallons of antifreeze is around $10 per ($50 total).


Ok, back to the machine shop pricing. I actually went and dug this receipt up just to post it up here. Here ya go.



$300 for 3 angle valve job (which was $175 by itself), installing valve guides, polishing crank, honing cylinders, hot tanking parts, and resurfacing the heads. Allison's Machine Shop in Asheboro, NC. Their phone number is at the top, call them up and get a quote if you still don't believe me.

And if that's not enough, look up and call Loop Road Auto Parts in Garner, NC. That's the other machine shop I was talking about with very similar prices that's closer by.

I seriously don't know how to prove it to you any more.


So, as a recap with updated numbers from this post.

- Boss 302 rods: $175.60
- 03 Cobra pistons: $200
- King bearings: $94.98
- Gaskets and headbolts: $159.60
- Total Seal rings: $119.99 (Total Seal CR8264-5 - 4.6/5.4 Plasma Moly Piston Ring Set 1.5mm x 1.5mm x 3mm, 3.552" Bore
- OEM main bolts: $35.00 (OEM Ford Main Bolts
- ARP crank bolt: $29.99 (ARP 156-2501- 4.6L / 5.4L Modular Harmonic Balancer Bolt 12-Point
- Machine shop work: $105
- Fluids: $50

All to a total of $970.16.

This is, quite literally, exactly how I built my motor, except I only paid $50 for the pistons. Plus or minus a few bucks here or there on price changes from a year ago, I have around $825 in my motor. Call it an even $1000 by the time I buy the tools I was talking about earlier, and the few bucks in shipping for some of this stuff.


Seriously dude, I understand that YOU might have paid $2000 to build a motor, and that YOU aren't capable of shopping around for deals on parts, or for machine shops that don't have "performance" in their name that don't rip you off on machining services. But that doesn't mean that everyone isn't. So the next time you say "that's not possible to do for that much money" or "xxxx parts are AT LEAST $yyyy" maybe consider the possibility that you don't know everything.

And to be crystal clear, this isn't anything personal or me trying to be an a$$hole. But if there's one pet peave of mine with online forums, it's people spewing untrue or blatantly false information. That misinformation has the potential to cause some innocent reader who doesn't know any better a lot of money or time, or even worse, they go and spread the misinformation even further. So I never mean, or take, anything personal with online forums, but I cannot stand bull, and I will not hesitate to call it out.

sneaky98gt said:

You really gonna make me do this, dude?

Ok, you asked for it.



CONNECTING ROD for 2012 Ford Mustang|CR3Z-6200-A Part number CR3Z-6200-A. $21.95 each, or $175.60.

Strike 1.



F.S. Stock 03-04 Cobra rods/pistons

FS: forged 04 cobra pistons

03,04 Cobra Pistons $100 plus shipping

Just from a couple minutes of searching. I bought mine from a local Mustang performance shop. They build folks' perfectly running Cobra motors, and the internals often get tossed in the trash. Got mine for $50. And I had a couple other folks looking to sell for around $50 back when I was looking. I have looked for a half hour now, but I cannot find my receipt for those pistons.

Regardless, this one is harder to prove since we're talking used parts, and some folks get deals while others don't. So I'll let you off without a strike here. In doing my google search earlier, I saw an easy dozen sets for $150-$200 asking price (although didn't see many/any sold above that). So we'll go with your number of $200.



What gaskets?

The intake manifold ones for $22.79? More Information for FEL-PRO MS921213

The timing cover ones for $17.61? More Information for FEL-PRO TCS458692

The oil pan one for $19.95? More Information for FEL-PRO OS30725R

The rear main for $9.05? More Information for FEL-PRO BS40620

The headgasket and exhaust manifold ones for $90.20? (which includes new head bolts) HEAD CHANGING KIT 2V

And I seriously can't think of any more. That's a total of $159.60.

Strike 2.



King CR868SI - OEM Replacement Rod Bearing Set for Ford 4.6L / 5.4L Engines $39.99

King MB5280SI - OEM Replacement Main Bearing Set for Ford 4.6L / 5.4L Windsor $54.99

Strike 3.

And before you come back and say "Oh, those aren't quality ones", go find me a single example of them failing. There's a many a single digit cars around here running King OEM bearings with 0 issues for years and hundreds of passes. The guy who ported my blower said he has put these in dozens of 600+ horsepower Cobras without a single failure. My 500 rwhp car now has about 100 passes and more than 10,000 HARD miles on these bearings with no issues.

Remember, we're only talking a 600 horsepower motor build here. Also remember that an 03 Cobra doesn't have any special, high performance type of bearing, and they easily make 600+.



Correct (for a change). But did you miss the part about ARP stuff not being needed until well past 600 rwhp? Since I'm sure you don't believe me, here it is straight from the mouth of one of the most knowledgeable people to ever touch a 4.6: When To Use ARP Bolts and Studs

I personally have never heard or read about someone breaking OEM hardware at any power level. Other things break well before they do.



I'll come back to this later.



Such as? I listed all of it earlier. All of the bolts are reusable except the head, main, rod, and crank bolt(s).



I have laid it all out right here in front of you on exactly how I did exactly that. If you simply refuse to believe what I'm showing you, then our conversation is over, as it's clear you're not willing accept that you're wrong.



I budgeted $50 for that in my total earlier. Last I checked, a 5 quart jug of oil is about $25, a filter is about $5, and 2 gallons of antifreeze is around $10 per ($50 total).


Ok, back to the machine shop pricing. I actually went and dug this receipt up just to post it up here. Here ya go.



$300 for 3 angle valve job (which was $175 by itself), installing valve guides, polishing crank, honing cylinders, hot tanking parts, and resurfacing the heads. Allison's Machine Shop in Asheboro, NC. Their phone number is at the top, call them up and get a quote if you still don't believe me.

And if that's not enough, look up and call Loop Road Auto Parts in Garner, NC. That's the other machine shop I was talking about with very similar prices that's closer by.

I seriously don't know how to prove it to you any more.


So, as a recap with updated numbers from this post.

- Boss 302 rods: $175.60
- 03 Cobra pistons: $200
- King bearings: $94.98
- Gaskets and headbolts: $159.60
- Total Seal rings: $119.99 (Total Seal CR8264-5 - 4.6/5.4 Plasma Moly Piston Ring Set 1.5mm x 1.5mm x 3mm, 3.552" Bore
- OEM main bolts: $35.00 (OEM Ford Main Bolts
- ARP crank bolt: $29.99 (ARP 156-2501- 4.6L / 5.4L Modular Harmonic Balancer Bolt 12-Point
- Machine shop work: $105
- Fluids: $50

All to a total of $970.16.

This is, quite literally, exactly how I built my motor, except I only paid $50 for the pistons. Plus or minus a few bucks here or there on price changes from a year ago, I have around $825 in my motor. Call it an even $1000 by the time I buy the tools I was talking about earlier, and the few bucks in shipping for some of this stuff.


Seriously dude, I understand that YOU might have paid $2000 to build a motor, and that YOU aren't capable of shopping around for deals on parts, or for machine shops that don't have "performance" in their name that don't rip you off on machining services. But that doesn't mean that everyone isn't. So the next time you say "that's not possible to do for that much money" or "xxxx parts are AT LEAST $yyyy" maybe consider the possibility that you don't know everything.

And to be crystal clear, this isn't anything personal or me trying to be an a$$hole. But if there's one pet peave of mine with online forums, it's people spewing untrue or blatantly false information. That misinformation has the potential to cause some innocent reader who doesn't know any better a lot of money or time, or even worse, they go and spread the misinformation even further. So I never mean, or take, anything personal with online forums, but I cannot stand bull****, and I will not hesitate to call it out.

Click to expand...

Oil pump and oil pump pick up, timing chain set, front and rear main seals, oil filter housing gasket. And don't forget new oil lifters as I personally would not re-use them...but that is up to you or whoever builds it. The 4.6 also has side main bolts and depending on the engine those may need to be replaced as some are TTY. I personally would replace them regardless just to be sure. Again, that is up to the builder. I choose to err on the side of safety with that because you never know if they were replaced at some point with TTY bolts. You can re-use the water pump and thermostat so I won't count that even tho if it was my build I would buy new ones. And for the record, you need about 7 quarts of oil in a 4.6. And 3 gallons of antifreeze, not 2. Gonna cancel out power steering pump fluid and AC refridgerant. I'll also do you a favor and cancel out new spark plugs. So now do the math and add all that in. So I may have been off in some of the pricing but like I said, add in everything and it is not a $1K build.

Now let me be clear about something. I don't bull people. And I don't talk out my ass, and I don't talk for the hell of it. Sometimes I may be off a bit as I was in some of the pricing...BTW you can get a head gasket kit for $70 or less...but still for the most part I know what I'm talking about. I've built these engines. And I've personally gone around and bought all the items myself. Granted, when I did my builds, 2V stuff was still kinda pricey. The prices have come down a bit over the years. And machine shop prices vary from place to place. But you get my point.

Now I will say that you can shave money off by using stuff that you should replace. You don't really need machine work done. You can re-use TTY head bolts...you shouldn't but you could. And the side main bolts can be reused. You can save the coolant, power steering pump fluid, and even the oil and oil filter if it is relatively new. Intake manifold gaskets can be reused sometimes depending on mileage. And spark plugs can be re-used. If you're truly tight, you could even reuse the oil pump and oil pump pickup depending on how you remove it as well as the timing chains and guides. That would be a true budget build. You could scrape an engine build down to being VERY cheap if you know what you're doing. It could be done. But if you do it right and get all the parts that should be replaced (all bolts, all gaskets, all fluids, spark plugs, timing components, all internal engine parts, etc), If it is truly a rebuilt engine, its gonna cost more than $1K in parts alone.

And a rebuilt engine would also include having the heads cleaned and machined down as far as I am concerned. That is another $100 right there. Some places may charge less but I haven't see it less than that.

If your money is tight, or if you're just trying to build something to last temporarily, then you could get away with an engine build soo cheap you'd probably amaze yourself. But for building a V8 Mustang engine that you're planning on using indefinitely, maybe taking to the track, spirited driving, and maybe even low boost, you need to spend some money and do it right. My builds came out to a lot of money because I didn't skimp out. I used all high quality stuff. And my engines saw 15 psi of boost. I had all new stuff in it. Forged H-Beam rods, DSS Racing pistons, high performance bearings, high volume oil pump, all Fel-pro gaskets, new timing chains and sprockets, even a brand new harmonic balancer. Not to forget to mention new heads aftermarket cams headers, etc. I used new bolts everywhere. New water pump, and even a new power steering pump. I spared no expense. And I built a rock solid engine that I was not hesitant about anything with. Actually, my best friend and I built it. And my builds were "cheap" compared to what some people spent. I know people who made my builds look cheap as far as pricing goes. To each their own. But if I were you or OP, I would not look to build an engine for under $1K.

I'm annoyed just reading this pissing contest. Three50won I don't know what else Sneaky would have to do to prove that he was able to build his engine for what he said it cost him. It's obvious you're one of those guys who simply cannot admit he's wrong, ever. Even if you did, no one would believe you anyways. You're obviously "right" so why bother going on & on.

restomod66 said:

I'm annoyed just reading this ****ing contest. Three50won I don't know what else Sneaky would have to do to prove that he was able to build his engine for what he said it cost him. It's obvious you're one of those guys who simply cannot admit he's wrong, ever. Even if you did, no one would believe you anyways. You're obviously "right" so why bother going on & on.

Click to expand...

Yup. I'm done with it.

My intention was never to start a pissing match, but only to make sure the OP and any future readers of this thread are aware of all the options out there. I know that back when I popped my first motor, doing a "build" on it never even crossed my mind because I was one of those folks under the assumption it was going to cost thousands and thousands of dollars that I didn't have at the time. If I would have had the info that I posted earlier in this thread back then, I absolutely would have spent a thousand bucks or so to build it. Instead, I wasted an additional $750 on buying a stock junkyard motor that only lasted less than 2 years. That's the only reason I put up those posts earlier: so that someone in the future might could have better information to use to evaluate all of their options, instead of ruling out options because of false assumptions.

restomod66 said:

I'm annoyed just reading this ****ing contest. Three50won I don't know what else Sneaky would have to do to prove that he was able to build his engine for what he said it cost him. It's obvious you're one of those guys who simply cannot admit he's wrong, ever. Even if you did, no one would believe you anyways. You're obviously "right" so why bother going on & on.

Click to expand...

No sweat off my back. For the record , I don't see how I was any more aggressive or any more wrong than sneaky ESPECIALLY since there were several items he left out in his pricing. But maybe that escaped you. Or maybe all the other stuff he left out was free. Price it again. He was already at $970 BEFORE all the stuff he left out. But hey, what do I know. Maybe you're the type to re-use timing chains, oil pumps, lifters, and TTY bolts, and the other stuff I mentioned on a rebuild. Maybe your idea of a rebuild calls for using stuff that should be replaced. If thats the case I could "rebuild" and engine for $500. Anyway, I don't know and I don't care. I'm not here to impress you or to prove anything to you. And yes, I refuse to admit I'm wrong when I'm not wrong. Do your thing. But don't sit here and come at me when I made just as many valid points as sneaky did. Good luck with your ignorance and your build. Good riddance to you.

Three50won said:

No sweat off my back. For the record , I don't see how I was any more aggressive or any more wrong than sneaky ESPECIALLY since there were several items he left out in his pricing. But maybe that escaped you. Or maybe all the other stuff he left out was free. Price it again. He was already at $970 BEFORE all the stuff he left out. But hey, what do I know. Maybe you're the type to re-use timing chains, oil pumps, lifters, and TTY bolts, and the other stuff I mentioned on a rebuild. Maybe your idea of a rebuild calls for using stuff that should be replaced. If thats the case I could "rebuild" and engine for $500. Anyway, I don't know and I don't care. I'm not here to impress you or to prove anything to you. And yes, I refuse to admit I'm wrong when I'm not wrong. Do your thing. But don't sit here and come at me when I made just as many valid points as sneaky did. Good luck with your ignorance and your build. Good riddance to you.

Click to expand...

In the words of Jackie Chan, "Do you not understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?!?!"

This really is the last time I quote you in this thread. But once again, to make sure future readers get the correct information, you've baited me into doing it again.

Three50won said:

...timing chains...

Click to expand...

Is this something that can be replaced when doing a build? Sure. Required? Absolutely not. Especially if the car has under a couple hundred thousand miles. I bought new ones for mine years prior when I did a cam swap, when the car had around 110,000 miles on it, and the new arms, guides, and chains looked 100% identical to the ones on the car. No wear at all. If I had to do it over again, I'd leave the stock ones alone and save that money.

Don't confuse preventative maintenance that has to be done anyway, with items required for an engine build. Sure, some time might could be saved by doing them at the same time, but convenience doesn't equal necessity. I mean, if we're going to include items that require servicing periodically, why not include new suspension while we're at it? New shocks and struts? New ball joints? New wheel bearings? New sway bar bushings? New control arm bushings? New brakes? New clutch? New differential oil and seals? New tires? New radio? New speakers? New upholstery? New dual mounted machine guns.....er....maybe that's just me.

See what I mean?

Three50won said:

...oil pumps...

Click to expand...

See above.

Three50won said:

...lifters...

Click to expand...

See above.

Three50won said:

...TTY bolts...

Click to expand...

I listed all of them above and included them in the cost. You mentioned side bolts earlier. They are TTY only on WAP blocks (99/01 Cobras, 03/04 Mach 1s), and if you read around, most folks don't bother replacing them on those either since those motors have 4 bolt mains anyway.

Three50won said:

...the other stuff I mentioned on a rebuild...

Click to expand...

Oh yes, the other stuff.

"Front and rear main seals?" Yea, I included those earlier.

"Oil filter housing gasket?" You got me there. I'll be sure to add that $7.37 to the total. More Information for FEL-PRO 70801

"Water pump and thermostat?" See above about general maintenance vs. parts required for a build. Still on the original here with 152,000 miles. Seeing that it takes all of about 15 minutes to replace on the car, I'll just keep that money in the bank until I need it.

"7 quarts of oil?" Nope. I was wrong, too. But it's only 6. I'll tack that $5 onto the total. Ford 4.6L & 5.4L Specs | Ford Modular V-8

"3 gallons of antifreeze?" Wrong again. It's about 3 gallons of coolant total, so only 1.5 gallons of antifreeze needed (versus my estimate of 2). Since we're splitting hairs here, I'll back that $5 out of the total. Coolant/antifreeze capacity - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum

"Power steering pump?" Seriously? See above about all the things that we could replace "just to be safe".

"AC refrigerant?" See above. Heck, why stop there? Might as well go ahead and replace the compressor, too, right?

"Spark plugs?" Ok, you got me there again. Dammit. I'll add in the whopping $15 for new spark plugs. Although I think this could also easily fall into the category of regular maintenance.


Soooo, with all of the new revelations of things I forgot about and left off, our new total comes out to a staggering $992.53.

Three50won said:

Good luck with your ignorance and your build. Good riddance to you.

Click to expand...

No need to get personal.

And my build is doing great, pulling double duty as a fair-weather DD being driven a thousand miles a month, and a track car making a couple dozen mid 11 second passes each month. All on a $1000 engine build that's probably going to spontaneously combust at any point now since I was "cheap" on it and "reused stuff" and didn't use "high quality parts".

sneaky98gt said:

In the words of Jackie Chan, "Do you not understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?!?!"

This really is the last time I quote you in this thread. But once again, to make sure future readers get the correct information, you've baited me into doing it again.



Is this something that can be replaced when doing a build? Sure. Required? Absolutely not. Especially if the car has under a couple hundred thousand miles. I bought new ones for mine years prior when I did a cam swap, when the car had around 110,000 miles on it, and the new arms, guides, and chains looked 100% identical to the ones on the car. No wear at all. If I had to do it over again, I'd leave the stock ones alone and save that money.

Don't confuse preventative maintenance that has to be done anyway, with items required for an engine build. Sure, some time might could be saved by doing them at the same time, but convenience doesn't equal necessity. I mean, if we're going to include items that require servicing periodically, why not include new suspension while we're at it? New shocks and struts? New ball joints? New wheel bearings? New sway bar bushings? New control arm bushings? New brakes? New clutch? New differential oil and seals? New tires? New radio? New speakers? New upholstery? New dual mounted machine guns.....er....maybe that's just me.

See what I mean?



See above.



See above.




I listed all of them above and included them in the cost. You mentioned side bolts earlier. They are TTY only on WAP blocks (99/01 Cobras, 03/04 Mach 1s), and if you read around, most folks don't bother replacing them on those either since those motors have 4 bolt mains anyway.




Oh yes, the other stuff.

"Front and rear main seals?" Yea, I included those earlier.

"Oil filter housing gasket?" You got me there. I'll be sure to add that $7.37 to the total. More Information for FEL-PRO 70801

"Water pump and thermostat?" See above about general maintenance vs. parts required for a build. Still on the original here with 152,000 miles. Seeing that it takes all of about 15 minutes to replace on the car, I'll just keep that money in the bank until I need it.

"7 quarts of oil?" Nope. I was wrong, too. But it's only 6. I'll tack that $5 onto the total. Ford 4.6L & 5.4L Specs | Ford Modular V-8

"3 gallons of antifreeze?" Wrong again. It's about 3 gallons of coolant total, so only 1.5 gallons of antifreeze needed (versus my estimate of 2). Since we're splitting hairs here, I'll back that $5 out of the total. Coolant/antifreeze capacity - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum

"Power steering pump?" Seriously? See above about all the things that we could replace "just to be safe".

"AC refrigerant?" See above. Heck, why stop there? Might as well go ahead and replace the compressor, too, right?

"Spark plugs?" Ok, you got me there again. Dammit. I'll add in the whopping $15 for new spark plugs. Although I think this could also easily fall into the category of regular maintenance.


Soooo, with all of the new revelations of things I forgot about and left off, our new total comes out to a staggering $992.53.



No need to get personal.

And my build is doing great, pulling double duty as a fair-weather DD being driven a thousand miles a month, and a track car making a couple dozen mid 11 second passes each month. All on a $1000 engine build that's probably going to spontaneously combust at any point now since I was "cheap" on it and "reused stuff" and didn't use "high quality parts".

Click to expand...

Ok so your "rebuild" consists of using parts with the intention of keeping it under $1000. But don't sit here and BS me talking about reusing timing components and oil pumps and lifters and TTY side main bolts just to keep your "rebuild" under $1K. If you know anything about engines then you would never reuse that stuff on a rebuild. If you do then you're a hack. ESPECIALLY if the engine has over 100K miles. I wouldn't reuse any of that stuff from any stock 2V engine. Even an 04 2V engine is already 11+ years old. To sit here and insist that they should be reused and to compare them to preventative maintenance is the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. You know better than that and sitting here playing dumb or trying to act like you can get away with reusing them isn't gonna work with me. Those items absolutely should be replaced. You reuse that stuff then you deserve the inevitable engine failure that is sure to come.

And it is 7 quarts of oil. The oil pan has a 6 quart capacity. But once the oil circulates through the engine, pump, and oil filter you'll need an extra quart to get it in range on the dipstick. For the coolant, at 50/50 mix, you'd need 3 gallons. That was what I was talking about.