The Motor Pull Thread

sneaky98gt · Nov 15, 2011

SteedaGT9150 said:
pics?

N8Dogg98 said:
Damn Will... didn't know you had that thing back together already. Can't wait to hear the numbers.

I'll snap a picture or two tomorrow sometime. I repainted the blower again this time, but with a lot more prep and better paint, so it looks way better! Unfortunately, I didn't have the needed bolts to swap over to the COPs, so I'll do that over Thanksgiving break. It definitely looks a lot nicer under the hood!

And yea, Nate. I spent about 12 hours a day, Friday-Sunday for the last two weekends to get it done, haha. I'm still sore, but I'm SO glad it's done. I'll be heading out for a late night cruise around Raleigh later tonight. 60 degree weather is nice.

SRT Handz said:
how did you mount the NPI blower to PI heads?

98COBRA281 said:
bolted them on.... and probably RTV'd the coolant ports

Yea, it bolts right up. One of the coolant jackets has a corner that doesn't exactly match up. I have a friend in a class here at State with access to a TIG welder, so I got him to weld it up for me right quick like. Sanded it down smooth, and it looked just gravy. Should have snapped a picture of it, but it looked fine.

Also did the 'water cooling' mod on the blower, which involves drilling holes on the rear two ports of the blower so that the water can actually flow through the heads/block. I can already tell a difference because the temp gauge will go up after a WOT pull for a few seconds, then come back down (which is basically where the hot water in the block/heads is efficiently being circulated through the system and cooled down.) It used to stay at exactly the same temperature regardless, which is probably because water wasn't flowing through the motor properly.

trombonedemon · Nov 15, 2011

You a very talented guy.

Modular2v · Nov 15, 2011

SRT Handz said:
I still think running meth is a waste. Its just another tank you have to monitor and fill up.

Figure out some way to mount a I/C on that thing.

I fully agree. Hard to replace an IC. I think nitrous would be better than meth!

sneaky98gt · Nov 15, 2011

Modular2v said:
I fully agree. Hard to replace an IC. I think nitrous would be better than meth!

Oh, I definitely agree that an intercooler is better. BUT, there is NO possible way to mount an intercooler with this blower. Methanol is the ONLY way to cool it down. And it honestly does a pretty good job with it.

And nitrous doesn't cool the intake charge any significant amount on a roots blower. I have seen the data logs with my own eyes of a couple of guys with Cobras in the area. They were spraying their ported Eaton Cobra with around a 100 shot, and the IATs were only coming down about 10 degrees.

tank_567 · Nov 16, 2011

The big question, is this beast going to be at "The Rock" for Dragging Rights, you know I just might run the Fiesta in the bracket racing class.

sneaky98gt · Nov 16, 2011

trombonedemon said:
You a very talented guy.

Haha, I don't know about that. I think 'determined' is a better word, lol.

tank_567 said:
The big question, is this beast going to be at "The Rock" for Dragging Rights, you know I just might run the Fiesta in the bracket racing class.

I'll be there, but I'm not planning on racing. The car is running great, but I'm just not going to chance anything till I get it tuned (which won't be for another 2-ish weeks).

sneaky98gt · Nov 18, 2011

SRT Handz said:
I still think running meth is a waste. Its just another tank you have to monitor and fill up.

Modular2v said:
I fully agree. Hard to replace an IC. I think nitrous would be better than meth!

Still think that? (Click on it to make it bigger.) Yellow is downstream IATs. Purple is RPM. Blue is speed. The scale on the left is the IAT temps.

It was a 1st-2nd gear pull, from a dead stop up to the top of 2nd, about 85 mph. I went WOT (i.e. meth came on) at about the 88.5 second mark.

That was with the blower completely hot. If I sprayed it back to back, the IATs came down into the 90-95 degree range. This is on about 8-8.5 pounds of boost with a non-intercooled hEaton. Plus, I still have another size bigger meth nozzle that I could spray it with, but I don't think it's necessary.

And for reference, without any meth, the IATs were in the 220-230 range. So the meth brought the temps down over 100 degrees. I'd hardly say it's a waste.

Seriously, none of this is meant in a condescending way, but would someone with an intercooled PD blower post up their downstream IATs? I really want to see how they compare.

SRT Handz · Nov 18, 2011

on a 100 Degree day, my Downstream IATs are no high than 125 when driving around in traffic not boosting hard. When i floor the car the IATs Drop even more because air is passing faster over the intercooler. This is with the blower HOT from driving.

When its cool outside (55-60 degrees). My IAT even go to 100 degrees and lower when just driving around not boosting hard. Boosting hard will make them drop lower.

I see the point of Meth, But my problem with meth is that gotta fill it up kinda like nitrous. The blower is always there anytime i tap the gas with intercooled boost.

I have a air-to-water Intercooler and Honestly I wish it could be air-to-air because with the water system I have to monitor the coolant and the I/C pump. With A2A I wouldnt have to worry about those. But Air-to-water handles business.

IMO, The car already has so many systems to monitor. The less systems you have to worry about, the better.

nickmckinney · Nov 18, 2011

Not that it matters much at this point but here is a good tech article on how the butted rings break the piston, see if this doesn't look like most broken 4.6 pistons out there:

Icon Forged Racing Pistons

sneaky98gt · Nov 19, 2011

SRT Handz said:
on a 100 Degree day, my Downstream IATs are no high than 125 when driving around in traffic not boosting hard. When i floor the car the IATs Drop even more because air is passing faster over the intercooler. This is with the blower HOT from driving.

When its cool outside (55-60 degrees). My IAT even go to 100 degrees and lower when just driving around not boosting hard. Boosting hard will make them drop lower.

I see the point of Meth, But my problem with meth is that gotta fill it up kinda like nitrous. The blower is always there anytime i tap the gas with intercooled boost.

I have a air-to-water Intercooler and Honestly I wish it could be air-to-air because with the water system I have to monitor the coolant and the I/C pump. With A2A I wouldnt have to worry about those. But Air-to-water handles business.

IMO, The car already has so many systems to monitor. The less systems you have to worry about, the better.

Alright, so we probably have roughly the same IATs, with you maybe having a slight advantage. BUT, when I'm spraying the meth, I then have an effective octane rating of at least 105. THAT is the advantage of the meth.

nickmckinney said:
Not that it matters much at this point but here is a good tech article on how the butted rings break the piston, see if this doesn't look like most broken 4.6 pistons out there:

Icon Forged Racing Pistons

Wow, that is exactly what mine looks like, haha.

I got a video of a few WOT pulls that I'll post up later.

Modular2v · Nov 19, 2011

SRT Handz said:
on a 100 Degree day, my Downstream IATs are no high than 125 when driving around in traffic not boosting hard. When i floor the car the IATs Drop even more because air is passing faster over the intercooler. This is with the blower HOT from driving.

When its cool outside (55-60 degrees). My IAT even go to 100 degrees and lower when just driving around not boosting hard. Boosting hard will make them drop lower.

I see the point of Meth, But my problem with meth is that gotta fill it up kinda like nitrous. The blower is always there anytime i tap the gas with intercooled boost.

I have a air-to-water Intercooler and Honestly I wish it could be air-to-air because with the water system I have to monitor the coolant and the I/C pump. With A2A I wouldnt have to worry about those. But Air-to-water handles business.

IMO, The car already has so many systems to monitor. The less systems you have to worry about, the better.

my IATs are a little higher than yours (130*) but im also running an eaton which is FAR less effecient than your kb. How much is a meth kit? meth?

sneaky98gt · Nov 19, 2011

Modular2v said:
my IATs are a little higher than yours (130*) but im also running an eaton which is FAR less effecient than your kb. How much is a meth kit? meth?

Ooops, I meant to include that in my last post, but was in a hurry and forgot it.

I got my meth kit secondhand, brand new for $275. This particular kit is the absolute best quality kit you can buy, and it normally runs about $400.

I use windshield washer fluid as my 'meth'. It is 30% methanol, 70% water and is $2.00 a gallon. 100% methanol can be had for around $5.00 a gallon; I can mix my own 50/50 for less than $3.00/gallon, and mix 65/35 for $3.50/gallon.

The amount I use depends entirely on my driving habits. It only comes on if I'm making over 6 pounds of boost. I got my car back together last Sunday, filled up the 3 gallon meth tank then, and have been driving the crap out of it (i.e. using a LOT of meth), and it still has some left in it.

Under typical conditions, I'll fill up the 3-gallon tank less than once a month. So including track trips, with wiper fluid, I might spend $100 a year on meth.

sneaky98gt · Nov 19, 2011

As promised, here's the video of a few WOT pulls I made on the way back from the track this afternoon.

WOT Pulls on New Motor - SVO Supercharger on 4.6 PI Engine - YouTube

Just judging by the traction problems, it's definitely running quite a bit stronger. Here's another video I shot this past spring for comparison.

Testing the New Camera Mount at Rockingham - YouTube

Compare the run at 0:22 in the 1st video to the one at 1:48 in the 2nd video.

By my stopwatch, I'm now getting to 80 mph from a dead stop in 6.7 seconds, versus the 7.5 seconds in the 2nd video. A .8 second gain (peddling it on street tires vs. dead hooking on drag radials) is HUGE! That alone should get me close to an 11 second pass (considering I ran 12.7 @ 108 in that 2nd video), and the car isn't even tuned yet. It's on 15 degrees of timing, and a single-digit-rich AFR.

I really can't wait to see what it does with a good tune and get it back on the track.

SRT Handz · Nov 19, 2011

I still think its Odd you are running 15 degrees of timing and I am only running 12 degrees for 407HP.

tank_567 · Nov 20, 2011

SRT Handz said:
I still think its Odd you are running 15 degrees of timing and I am only running 12 degrees for 407HP.

Can we see a dyno sheet of this "407HP"? It seems that you have a pic of everything online but your dyno sheet.

usaf_branham · Nov 20, 2011

SRT Handz said:
I still think its Odd you are running 15 degrees of timing and I am only running 12 degrees for 407HP.

there is absolutely no way you are making 407 rwhp with a 9psi kenne bell kit on 12 degree's of spark, even if you have the big air kit and are making 10 psi. if that is what your tuner told you, then he gave you uncorrected numbers and his dynojet is very generous.

SRT Handz · Nov 20, 2011

usaf_branham said:
there is absolutely no way you are making 407 rwhp with a 9psi kenne bell kit on 12 degree's of spark, even if you have the big air kit and are making 10 psi. if that is what your tuner told you, then he gave you uncorrected numbers and his dynojet is very generous.

Thats the numbers Uncorrected. 407 at 12 degrees of timing. If i can find the dyno sheet i will post it up. I put it in my garage some where but its gone missing.

My tuner is REALLY good.

tank_567 · Nov 20, 2011

usaf_branham said:
there is absolutely no way you are making 407 rwhp with a 9psi kenne bell kit on 12 degree's of spark, even if you have the big air kit and are making 10 psi. if that is what your tuner told you, then he gave you uncorrected numbers and his dynojet is very generous.

He's also doing it w/ stock exhaust manifolds, cats and h-pipe.

SRT Handz said:
My tuner is REALLY good.

He's really good at making a sale. Take your car somewhere else, Im sure it will show 30-50rwhp less than what you were told.

puma1552 · Nov 20, 2011

SRT Handz said:
If i can find the dyno sheet i will post it up. I put it in my garage some where but its gone missing.

Surprisingly convenient...

N8Dogg98 · Nov 21, 2011

usaf_branham said:
there is absolutely no way you are making 407 rwhp with a 9psi kenne bell kit on 12 degree's of spark, even if you have the big air kit and are making 10 psi. if that is what your tuner told you, then he gave you uncorrected numbers and his dynojet is very generous.

It wouldn't be the first time a dyno tuner "enhanced" the numbers. In fact, I can confidently say that 4.6 Mustangs seem to have the most over-rated dyno numbers of any car in history. I've seen my fair share of bolt-on 99-04 cars claiming to have 300RWHP with bolt-ons (including cams), yet I've also seen many full bolt-on 99-04 cars with 260-280 RWHP. IMO the 260-280 is much more realistic.

I don't doubt his dyno sheets show 407 RWHP, but it would be interesting to see what he'd put down on a dyno-dynamics unit (probably one of the more accurate dynos).

The Motor Pull Thread

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