I would venture to say, somewhere around 370.
I have a full exhaust (i do have high flow cats on my midpipe), cai, etc... and i made 390 rwhp on 15* of spark, with a high point of 10 psi.
It wouldn't be the first time a dyno tuner "enhanced" the numbers. In fact, I can confidently say that 4.6 Mustangs seem to have the most over-rated dyno numbers of any car in history. I've seen my fair share of bolt-on 99-04 cars claiming to have 300RWHP with bolt-ons (including cams), yet I've also seen many full bolt-on 99-04 cars with 260-280 RWHP. IMO the 260-280 is much more realistic.
I don't doubt his dyno sheets show 407 RWHP, but it would be interesting to see what he'd put down on a dyno-dynamics unit (probably one of the more accurate dynos).
I would venture to say, somewhere around 370.
I have a full exhaust (i do have high flow cats on my midpipe), cai, etc... and i made 390 rwhp on 15* of spark, with a high point of 10 psi.
My tuner is REALLY good.
It wouldn't be the first time a dyno tuner "enhanced" the numbers. In fact, I can confidently say that 4.6 Mustangs seem to have the most over-rated dyno numbers of any car in history. I've seen my fair share of bolt-on 99-04 cars claiming to have 300RWHP with bolt-ons (including cams), yet I've also seen many full bolt-on 99-04 cars with 260-280 RWHP. IMO the 260-280 is much more realistic.
I don't doubt his dyno sheets show 407 RWHP, but it would be interesting to see what he'd put down on a dyno-dynamics unit (probably one of the more accurate dynos).
Completely agree with all of this. A lot of folks act like it's easy to make 400 rwhp on these cars, and it is if you go really aggressive on the tune and/or boost. But for the most part, it takes some pretty serious mods to actually make 400 rwhp (i.e., have a 1/4 trap speed at the track that indicates you are actually making 400 rwhp). People like to look at Kenne Bells website and treat them like they are the gods of supercharging 4.6s. I can tell you from first hand observations, that a completely stock 4.6 makes NOWHERE NEAR 405 rwhp at 9 psi like they claim.
And while I'm at it. Kenne Bell's website has some of the most ridiculous claims I've ever seen. If it isn't obvious that they are trying to sell their product, I don't know what is.
Thats the numbers Uncorrected. 407 at 12 degrees of timing.
F%^K what dyno's say!! take it to the track and RUN IT!!!
id bet handz would run low 13's
I just found something interesting on KBs website.
http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Common/pdfs/46gtTechTips.pdf
"Ideal spark timing is around 23 degrees. For consistency, all our dyno testing was performed at 23 degrees with an AF ratio of 11:1."
A couple of paragraphs later:
"After attaining ideal AF ratio and ignition timing, figure 1 degree = 4 hp and 1 AF ratio = 8 hp."
Ok, so that seems relatively accurate based on the experiences with my car, other than the 23 degrees part (LOL at running 23 degrees on less than 94 octane).
At the top of that same article, they claim 431 rwhp with their stock kit, plus their cold air kit, 75 mm throttle body, bigger MAF, and inlet kit. I know this is bogus because they are claiming 250 rwhp on a stock GT with a CAI. Plus they claim a 10 rwhp gain from a bigger MAF.
But, let's assume it's true. You are running 11 degrees less timing than they claim their numbers at. 11 X 4 = 44 rwhp. 431-44 = 387 rwhp by their generous claims.
....
To top it off there are quite a few that have found what is fastest at the track is down on HP on the dyno 9 times out of 10. Usually the car wants slightly more fuel and spark at the track than what the dyno says is the best power (and I am not the only one to comment on this)
tuning on the street/track is where it is.
It doesn't matter how good your tuner is. There's 2 things that come into play at tuning WOT (i.e. power): timing and air/fuel ratio. On a stock motor car making <400 rwhp, that is not at all difficult to get right. You simply set the max timing and adjust the fuel tables throughout the RPM range to get the AFR you want. Give me the software to do it, and I'll do that just as good as any tuner anywhere.
The 'good tuning' comes into play when tuning automatic transmission shifts, or low RPM driveability on a cammed car, or making sure the spark tables pull timing when the IATs go to high (....).
Let me put it this way. Maybe your car did make 407 rwhp. Maybe the tuner doctored up the dyno sheet a little, maybe he didn't. But I'll almost put money on it that you can't lay down a better 1/4 mile time with 407 rwhp than I did with 325.
Completely agree with all of this. A lot of folks act like it's easy to make 400 rwhp on these cars, and it is if you go really aggressive on the tune and/or boost. But for the most part, it takes some pretty serious mods to actually make 400 rwhp (i.e., have a 1/4 trap speed at the track that indicates you are actually making 400 rwhp). People like to look at Kenne Bells website and treat them like they are the gods of supercharging 4.6s. I can tell you from first hand observations, that a completely stock 4.6 makes NOWHERE NEAR 405 rwhp at 9 psi like they claim.
And while I'm at it. Kenne Bell's website has some of the most ridiculous claims I've ever seen. If it isn't obvious that they are trying to sell their product, I don't know what is.
That is exactly what Mr. RobertP told me concerning the methanol on the dyno. I showed no gains on the dyno with 5 degrees more timing, but he said he guaranteed it would have run faster at the strip. Considering his experience with SVO blowers/methanol, I'm gonna take his word on it.
I'll be finding out when I get re-tuned and get it back to the track.
It doesn't matter how good your tuner is. There's 2 things that come into play at tuning WOT (i.e. power): timing and air/fuel ratio. On a stock motor car making <400 rwhp, that is not at all difficult to get right. You simply set the max timing and adjust the fuel tables throughout the RPM range to get the AFR you want. Give me the software to do it, and I'll do that just as good as any tuner anywhere.
The 'good tuning' comes into play when tuning automatic transmission shifts, or low RPM driveability on a cammed car, or making sure the spark tables pull timing when the IATs go to high (....).
Let me put it this way. Maybe your car did make 407 rwhp. Maybe the tuner doctored up the dyno sheet a little, maybe he didn't. But I'll almost put money on it that you can't lay down a better 1/4 mile time with 407 rwhp than I did with 325.
Completely agree with all of this. A lot of folks act like it's easy to make 400 rwhp on these cars, and it is if you go really aggressive on the tune and/or boost. But for the most part, it takes some pretty serious mods to actually make 400 rwhp (i.e., have a 1/4 trap speed at the track that indicates you are actually making 400 rwhp). People like to look at Kenne Bells website and treat them like they are the gods of supercharging 4.6s. I can tell you from first hand observations, that a completely stock 4.6 makes NOWHERE NEAR 405 rwhp at 9 psi like they claim.
And while I'm at it. Kenne Bell's website has some of the most ridiculous claims I've ever seen. If it isn't obvious that they are trying to sell their product, I don't know what is.
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