How much advance can I add with the predator safely? I would like to play around with it, but I am worried I will blow up my engine without an a/f meter.
Timing Advance with predator
- Thread starter crew_dawg16
- Start date
I have experimented with the predator quite a bit and currently I am rumming +4% Timing 2K-4K & 4K-7K. I have also tried adding more WOT fuel but I am back to the predator base tune 0%. The max timing advance during WOT is 20 deg. Use the predator data log feature to monitor timing...
93 octane
awsf-22c @ .55"
r50a
FYI Timing advance should not affect the A/F ratio.
93 octane
awsf-22c @ .55"
r50a
FYI Timing advance should not affect the A/F ratio.
Ruckus46Gt
Member
I'll tell you this much i now do not trust the predators tune as far as air fuel. Check my post about my dyno results today. With the reg predator tune i was way lean i had to richen it 5% and still might a little more. at one point i had it hitting 14.7-14.8
mcmmotorsports
Member
I have been told that 20-25 degrees timing should be ideal. Kenne Bell states that their dyno numbers are produced with 23 deg timing so 20-25 deg sounds reasonable. Your actual timing is always changing based of of multiple variables the computer monitors (TP, coolant temp, inlet air temp, etc). Try data logging SPARK and then view it with CMR_DAT program you will be suprised at how much it jumps around especially in closed loop, in open loop (WOT) it settles down a little (15-20deg 3K-6K rpm).
As always always listen for detonation and get off it if you hear detonation.
In my previous post I meant to put .055" not .55" for the spark gap...
As always always listen for detonation and get off it if you hear detonation.
In my previous post I meant to put .055" not .55" for the spark gap...
CRZYHRSGT
New Member
CRZYHRSGT said:
Don't know. Would love to see Diablo document the base settings for each revision.
I came away from the dyno with these for settings.
Timing 2-4 Range -5.0
Timing 4-7 Range -5.0
Fuel 2-4 Range -5.0
Fuel 4-7 Range -3.0
Also, changed to 180 degree thermostat. Since I couldn't figure out how to adjust the fan on/off, going to 180 lets the car run cooler and the damn fan isn't going all the time.
CRZYHRSGT
New Member
raykrv6a said:
I have noticed that thing running pretty much all the time. The 180 deg. t-stat made it better?
CRZYHRSGT
New Member
mcmmotorsports
Member
raykrv6a said:
Than your timing was retarded instead of advanced to get the most power?
What mods do you have?
340.29m/s
New Member
A little off subject, but I have teh r50a revision and I still think it completely sucks. I was running it for a while and then switched back to the stock tune (just changed settings in the stock tune) and it feels MUCH stronger now.
The base predator tune is "teh suck"
The base predator tune is "teh suck"
mcmmotorsports
Member
The tune that raykrv6a is using as stated above, actually retarded his timing. 
I thought the more you advance, the more HP you can squeeze.
I thought the more you advance, the more HP you can squeeze.
I thought I made it clear in previous posts but here is goes again with more explanation.
Your computer (ecc) in the mustang is fairly sophisticated. It monitors sensors and produces outputs based off of programming in the computer. The programming in the computer is not simple... I am sure that Ford uses some of the following things in their control strategy: PID, tables, offsets, non linear equations, feed forward, scaling, interpolation. The point I am trying to make is that you cannot make simplistic assumptions about ford's computer programming. They do not pay control system engineers to design programming with super simple one variable linear equations (ex. output=variable*RPM) things get nasty in the programming and everyone does not need to fully understand. As a matter of fact it is a good thing that Ford employs some very bright engineers. They produce a stock control system that is very intelligent and does a good job of controlling the engine (for most people
). Moral of the story... Timing is based off several variables and the only way, that I know of, to monitor the exact changes in timing is to DATA LOG or VIEW THE SPARK TIMING VARIABLE from the predator. Note the average and peak timing values at WOT and increase/decrease the timing % in the predator and make another WOT pass while monitoring the average & peak timing values. That will allow you to determine (by subtracting) the true change in timing. When I first got the predator I would record (DATA LOG) a WOT pass with the base predator tune then subtract 10% (timing) from the tune and record (DATA LOG) another pass. Then look at the difference if the difference is 5 deg then adding 10% to the predator tune would likely advance the timing 5 deg (that was an example every car will be different, remember variables even air temp, affect the overall timing).
FYI
output examples = fuel pump duty cycle, injector duty cycle, shift solenoids
sensors examples = throttle position, mass air flow(important), coolant temp, inlet air temp, differential manifold vacuum/fuel pressure, O2, etc...
If you are still confused adjust the predator at your own risk.
If it were anywhere near simple everyone would be a chip tuner or a control systems engineer.
Your computer (ecc) in the mustang is fairly sophisticated. It monitors sensors and produces outputs based off of programming in the computer. The programming in the computer is not simple... I am sure that Ford uses some of the following things in their control strategy: PID, tables, offsets, non linear equations, feed forward, scaling, interpolation. The point I am trying to make is that you cannot make simplistic assumptions about ford's computer programming. They do not pay control system engineers to design programming with super simple one variable linear equations (ex. output=variable*RPM) things get nasty in the programming and everyone does not need to fully understand. As a matter of fact it is a good thing that Ford employs some very bright engineers. They produce a stock control system that is very intelligent and does a good job of controlling the engine (for most people
). Moral of the story... Timing is based off several variables and the only way, that I know of, to monitor the exact changes in timing is to DATA LOG or VIEW THE SPARK TIMING VARIABLE from the predator. Note the average and peak timing values at WOT and increase/decrease the timing % in the predator and make another WOT pass while monitoring the average & peak timing values. That will allow you to determine (by subtracting) the true change in timing. When I first got the predator I would record (DATA LOG) a WOT pass with the base predator tune then subtract 10% (timing) from the tune and record (DATA LOG) another pass. Then look at the difference if the difference is 5 deg then adding 10% to the predator tune would likely advance the timing 5 deg (that was an example every car will be different, remember variables even air temp, affect the overall timing).FYI
output examples = fuel pump duty cycle, injector duty cycle, shift solenoids
sensors examples = throttle position, mass air flow(important), coolant temp, inlet air temp, differential manifold vacuum/fuel pressure, O2, etc...
If you are still confused adjust the predator at your own risk.
If it were anywhere near simple everyone would be a chip tuner or a control systems engineer.
