Too Good To Be True? Probably

Ramennoodles · Sep 6, 2017

hey guys,

My names Nick and I'm totally new to mustangs (and v8s for that matter) coming from rotary engines and 4cyl turbo miatas. I found a post for a notch on cl and my dad already has 2 lx hatches so we figured why not buy a notch?! Both the lxs have VERY minimal work done I.e. Cat back and I converted one to an electric rad fan. This guy claims 400hp (doesn't say crank or wheel) with his carbed 302. He lists minimal mods on post and only his wife is around to speak with until I look at it. Is this a ridiculous claim? 400 crank na seems kinda tough, 400 whp is a joke. Thoughts?

Ramennoodles · Sep 6, 2017

And a "Barry messer" engine, is some random dude I've never heard of, so insight on that is welcome too

Noobz347 · Sep 6, 2017

Ramennoodles said:
This guy claims 400hp (doesn't say crank or wheel) with his carbed 302.

Possible:

Call him up.

Ramennoodles · Sep 6, 2017

so I already called messer, he says "I don't recall a white fox, but if it still has the 302 it's not very easy to get 400 hp out of." So he put off like he would have definitely remembered if he did. Messer has a dyno at his shop too, but sadly the shop is pretty far from the car. He did remember a guy with a 302 who would get spray from him all the time, but he didn't remember the car the 302 was in.

Noobz347 · Sep 6, 2017

Ramennoodles said:
so I already called messer, he says "I don't recall a white fox, but if it still has the 302 it's not very easy to get 400 hp out of." So he put off like he would have definitely remembered if he did. Messer has a dyno at his shop too, but sadly the shop is pretty far from the car. He did remember a guy with a 302 who would get spray from him all the time, but he didn't remember the car the 302 was in.

Yeah, so chances are that it's not anywhere near 400hp. Ask for a build sheet from the previous owner.

Davedacarpainter · Sep 6, 2017

I'm going to move your thread to our fox general talk subforum. Maybe some of our northeast guys may have heard of him.

Though it looks like a small shop, not that it makes them bad, just relatively unknown is all.

JJD08 · Sep 6, 2017

Well, the guy did convert it to carb. Everybody knows that's the way to get serious power.

Noobz347 · Sep 6, 2017

JJD08 said:
Well, the guy did convert it to carb. Everybody knows that's the way to get serious power.

Yep... That and a B-cam and it wouldn't even be street legal.

Ramennoodles · Sep 7, 2017

Update!

So I finally spoke with the guy, he said the engine was built, and put into the car, which was previously a 4cyl car. The owner states "I don't really know much about the car. I bought it from someone and he told me what was on it and how much it makes" so we're gunna go look at it Saturday anyway.

I'm assuming you guys are being facetious saying carb and b cam = big power, I would've never converted to carb, it could be because I'm a new school guy and I haven't messed with a carbed car, but it seems inferior in almost every way to efi. Again I apologize in advance for my almost complete lack of knowledge!

General karthief · Sep 7, 2017

The carb vrs efi debate is ongoing, most times it just seems easier to go carb, more so when dealing with a 4cyl to V8 swap
A well done swap to carb can be tasteful and perform well, look for hacked up stuff like wiring, cooling short cuts and look for brake upgrades.
Get some pics when you look at it.

Ramennoodles · Sep 7, 2017

It looks like a messy wiring job from pics, I'll get a good amount of pics definitely! I totally get carb vs efi when doing a motor swap, so you can pull the extra crap out and not need to worry about an ecu and junk, but I'm not sure it would be my preferred fueling option. I think I read somewhere the only diference between the 4cyl and v8 chassis is suspension and brakes, let's say the guy has no idea if they've been upgraded, how do I tell? And what would be a "cooling short cut"? Like a poorly mounted rad fan/wiring or zip ties and bubblegum holding the radiator up? Coming from the drifting community you guys should see the junk these people throw together and try to sell

General karthief · Sep 7, 2017

Just use your common sence, molded hoses not that flexable crap, direct wired fans, that sort of thing,
Take a paper an pen and do a pros/con list. Some brake upgrades are hard to spot, if it's got at or near that many ponies the engine will sound like it. Look for aftermarket heads and stuff like that but don't just poor over the dog house, check seat pans for cracks and updated rear control arms,
And make sure the engine is cold when you get there, a warmed up engine can hide the 'cold start death rattle'.

FoxMustangLvr · Sep 7, 2017

Don't let the fact that this car is a Notchback be a leading factor in looking past all of the RED FLAGS this car is waving in your face. 4cyl to 8cyl swaps are already distasteful but add in on top of that EFI to carb too? Run away!!!

FoxMustangLvr · Sep 7, 2017

Also about Mustang brakes, there are no decent brake upgrades to these cars that are worth mentioning IMO unless the car has been swapped to 5 lug with rear disc brakes. The cheap LMR 5 lug rotor swap that retains brake drums in the rear is not a "brake upgrade".

90sickfox · Sep 7, 2017

FoxMustangLvr said:
Don't let the fact that this car is a Notchback be a leading factor in looking past all of the RED FLAGS this car is waving in your face. 4cyl to 8cyl swaps are already distasteful but add in on top of that EFI to carb too? Run away!!!

I beg to differ...there's nothing wring with a v8 swap...as long as its done right.

Ramennoodles · Sep 7, 2017

FoxMustangLvr said:
Don't let the fact that this car is a Notchback be a leading factor in looking past all of the RED FLAGS this car is waving in your face. 4cyl to 8cyl swaps are already distasteful but add in on top of that EFI to carb too? Run away!!!

Is this common rhetoric? Do the mustang masses feel like 4cyl to 8's are a bad swap? I figured it's just simply economical if you do your stuff right. And as previously stated efi to carb is probably due to simplicity during the swap. I can see if something is fudged and shortcuts were taken, I value money too much to get googoo eyes over a clearly molested 30 year old car, luckily I'm young but have a good head on my shoulders when buying and selling cars.

Ryuk · Sep 7, 2017

The car may be a steal because he can't get it to run right.

Noobz347 · Sep 7, 2017

90sickfox said:
I beg to differ...there's nothing wring with a v8 swap...as long as its done right.

Not to mention that it's already been converted carb and at least 'ran' at some point.

If wiring is scary looking as FoxMustangLvr has suggested and you are not comfortable with DOING wiring, then I would probably pass.

If it doesn't scare you in the least, press on with pride... All the big pieces are there.

Check for CANCER!
- Rocker panels
- Fenders
- Underfloor
- Pillars
- Shock Towers
- Quarter panels
- Hatch / Trunk
- Torque Boxes!!!!

Ramennoodles · Sep 7, 2017

Exactly, when I bought my miata I knew I was going to go with a full stand alone ecu, but I bought the wrong one, so I ended up rewiring like half of the harness on my miata cuz I was too stubborn to wait for mail to return the ecu and send me out a brand new one, plus I had an event coming up so I was pressed for time. Wiring doesn't scare me like rust does LOL

Ramennoodles · Sep 7, 2017

JD08 said:
The car may be a steal because he can't get it to run right.

And judging by my conversations with the guy, he really seems to have no idea what he's doing, I guess we'll find out on Saturday!

Too Good To Be True? Probably

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