Too Good To Be True? Probably

FoxMustangLvr · Sep 7, 2017

Ramennoodles said:
And judging by my conversations with the guy, he really seems to have no idea what he's doing, I guess we'll find out on Saturday!

It's safe to assume that any info this guy thinks he knows about the car is false. The only way I'd believe anything is if he had receipts or could somehow prove his claims. 400 crank HP out of a 302 is probably a lie, maybe 350'ish, but that would require aluminum aftermarket heads, cam, etc to get there. If the rest of the car is super clean, paint is good, body and interior is good, etc...then maybe it's worth taking the risk. You should know that I'm not the only one that cringes at EFI to carb and 4 to 8 swaps when it comes to resale value especially if the person selling it doesn't inspire confidence in his mechanical abilities. If I was buying from Scott @90sickfox , then I'd feel ultra confident because he's a smart guy and could tell you anything about his car because he turned the wrenches and has the knowledge and work ethic to do it correctly.

CarMichael Angelo · Sep 7, 2017

Ramennoodles said:
Is this common rhetoric? Do the mustang masses feel like 4cyl to 8's are a bad swap? I figured it's just simply economical if you do your stuff right. And as previously stated efi to carb is probably due to simplicity during the swap. I can see if something is fudged and shortcuts were taken, I value money too much to get googoo eyes over a clearly molested 30 year old car, luckily I'm young but have a good head on my shoulders when buying and selling cars.

The typical car chosen as a donor for a lot of these swaps under the pretense of " if I can buy it right, I can make it into a 5.0 for way cheaper than what an actual 5.0 woulda cost me" is a hagged out, base car that needs everything to bring it up to spec.
Nothing is the same between the cars,.(4Cyl-5.0). Brakes, steering, suspension, elec systems,sheet-metal, and interior are all inferior and need upgrading, and that is compared to a car that already has a few shortcomings in its own right.
The wiring harness swap exceeds the electrical expertise of the guy doing the work, so stuff starts getting hacked to make it work. The f.i system gets about one chance, and when it doesn't work, ends up on the floor, and a holley 650 on a Weiand stealth ends up in its place.

The only examples of a successful 5.0 swap that seem to shine through are the ones where there was a 5.0 donor car that donated everything required to facilitate the swap. But even after all of that, and you make a imperceptible clone using a 4 cyl base car as a starter,....
The title still tells the truth.

The only case where a 4 cyl car is a better starting point when compared to its GT/LX cousin,...is:

A. A 4 cyl car will not be trashed when you look at suspension mount points. (Torque boxes)
B. The project is completely w/I the capabilities of the guy doing the work, and a clone is not the goal.
C. Resale is not even remotely a consideration.

General karthief · Sep 7, 2017

Ramennoodles said:
And judging by my conversations with the guy, he really seems to have no idea what he's doing, I guess we'll find out on Saturday!

Sounds like he might be a flipper, they think they can cobble up someone's abandoned project to make a quick buck, beware of open titles and recent title dates.

Ramennoodles · Sep 7, 2017

Had a run in with an open title, had to track the previous, previous owner down and he happened to live in the town over from me so he could file for a lost title, such a headache. And @FoxMustangLvr and @madmike1157 seriously I appreciate the real considerations, so for the sake of conversation, if this car was down the road from you for sale, ran good, minimal rust, how much would you theoretically pay for it

FoxMustangLvr · Sep 7, 2017

Do you have more pictures of the car?

Ramennoodles said:
Is this common rhetoric?

LOL, not rhetoric at all. A lot of people get in to these cars for different reasons. If this is the car you want then by all means go get it. You came to a forum to get our opinion about the purchase of this car and you're getting plenty of opinions and input. So far the info you've provided tells us nothing good IMO. Just looking at the one large photo you provided us tells us (or just me) a lot about the car and the work ethic of the person that owns/modified it.

For example,
1) The block was painted red and so are the cylinder heads, this tells me that there's a great chance the cylinder heads on this engine are cast iron. Can't think of any decent head for a 302 that will get you near 400 crank HP without it being aluminum. Who paints aluminum heads?
2) Spaghetti wiring job on the drivers side. Who needs that many wires for a carbed engine? Laziness
3) Underside of the hood is red, if the top is white then why didn't they just spray the bottom too? Short cut
4) I do not see a power steering pump. I'm assuming manual steering? Another short cut.

$3,500 is way too much for this car IMO unless there's about $2,500 in the glove box that comes with the car. I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just trying to arm you with information about the car that you may purchase.

Noobz347 · Sep 7, 2017

FoxMustangLvr said:
$3,500 is way too much for this car IMO unless there's about $2,500 in the glove box that comes with the car.

Yep

FoxMustangLvr · Sep 7, 2017

Ramennoodles said:
Had a run in with an open title, had to track the previous, previous owner down and he happened to live in the town over from me so he could file for a lost title, such a headache. And @FoxMustangLvr and @madmike1157 seriously I appreciate the real considerations, so for the sake of conversation, if this car was down the road from you for sale, ran good, minimal rust, how much would you theoretically pay for it

Honestly I bought an 88' notchback that's similar to what you're contemplating and I eventually moved on from it. Sold it and picked up a one owner survivor 5.0 and never looked back.

To give you an honest idea of value I don't think we have enough info. Is the interior all there and in good condition? Body and paint? More pictures?

Ramennoodles · Sep 7, 2017

FoxMustangLvr said:
I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just trying to arm you with information about the car that you may purchase.

No offense taken at all, I came here to ask people who own/modify these cars cuz I know I'll get honesty. He has 2 pictures of the car, that one I showed and this one, I'm still interested in taking a look at it but I have a ton of new info I can use to make a much more well educated decision. I'm still hoping he has no idea what he's doing and will take 1250 cash lmao

Ramennoodles · Sep 7, 2017

worst case scenario we do have a spare 302 in my garage, although I would rather not need to jump through hoops just to get a 4cyl chassis that may be frankensteined with junk

90sickfox · Sep 7, 2017

FoxMustangLvr said:
Do you have more pictures of the car?

LOL, not rhetoric at all. A lot of people get in to these cars for different reasons. If this is the car you want then by all means go get it. You came to a forum to get our opinion about the purchase of this car and you're getting plenty of opinions and input. So far the info you've provided tells us nothing good IMO. Just looking at the one large photo you provided us tells us (or just me) a lot about the car and the work ethic of the person that owns/modified it.

For example,
1) The block was painted red and so are the cylinder heads, this tells me that there's a great chance the cylinder heads on this engine are cast iron. Can't think of any decent head for a 302 that will get you near 400 crank HP without it being aluminum. Who paints aluminum heads?
2) Spaghetti wiring job on the drivers side. Who needs that many wires for a carbed engine? Laziness
3) Underside of the hood is red, if the top is white then why didn't they just spray the bottom too? Short cut
4) I do not see a power steering pump. I'm assuming manual steering? Another short cut.

$3,500 is way too much for this car IMO unless there's about $2,500 in the glove box that comes with the car. I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just trying to arm you with information about the car that you may purchase.

Hey....I painted my Twisted Wedge heads black along with the block....

90sickfox · Sep 7, 2017

The way prices are going I'd pay 2k for a clean 4 cylinder with no rust. The car I have now is from Indiana with a ding on every panel....but no rust. I payed 1200. It was a 4 cylinder auto with a bad trans. and 364,000 miles. Lol

Edit; that car could have been driven hard and put away wet. Mine was absolutely babied every day of its life. A real grocery getter...with the dings and mileage to prove it.

Mstng93SSP · Sep 7, 2017

My advice, be patient. Don't jump into something that's not right. There are still deals to be found if you take your time. If you are thinking of resale of the car at any time the two things that will kill it are 4cyl swapped and carbed swapped as already mentioned.

Davedacarpainter · Sep 7, 2017

What about a supercoupe swap?

FoxMustangLvr · Sep 7, 2017

90sickfox said:
Hey....I painted my Twisted Wedge heads black along with the block....

I still got love for you bro!

FoxMustangLvr · Sep 7, 2017

Mstng93SSP said:
My advice, be patient. Don't jump into something that's not right. There are still deals to be found if you take your time. If you are thinking of resale of the car at any time the two things that will kill it are 4cyl swapped and carbed swapped as already mentioned.

I took a look at the Mustangs for sale on the Vermont CL area and the OP doesn't have many good options to choose from unfortunately.

Ryuk · Sep 7, 2017

FoxMustangLvr brings up a good point. The 4 bangers had a different steering rack because they didn't have to worry about tire rub. If it has manual steering, it's a half assed way to solve that problem. That should give an indication of the quality of the conversion.

Ramennoodles · Sep 7, 2017

I'm in mass, we just have a house in vt so it's a nice weekend away as the excuse, but yea we're re limited for clean shells in northeast, believe me I'm in no rush to buying anything this would be a fun project to park in the garage after winter and button it all up/maybe figure out hooking up a 100 shot. I got a few more pics that solidify the shoddily done wiring lol all signs are pointing to "check it out and lowball him like crazy" also resale isn't in my vocabulary, I might have a car problem, as my gf would say, since I have 4 in the drive way... looks like a damn used car lot

Ramennoodles · Sep 7, 2017

JD08 said:
FoxMustangLvr brings up a good point. The 4 bangers had a different steering rack because they didn't have to worry about tire rub. If it has manual steering, it's a half assed way to solve that problem. That should give an indication of the quality of the conversion.

Good point, but some psychos prefer manual rack, and I fall into that category. Doesn't at all mean that I like shortcuts though

FoxMustangLvr · Sep 7, 2017

Ramennoodles said:
Good point, but some psychos prefer manual rack, and I fall into that category. Doesn't at all mean that I like shortcuts though

I wonder if the engine is an older non-roller flat tappet 302? Can anyone help this guy out with how to identify one over the other? @90sickfox @a91what

Ramennoodles · Sep 7, 2017

Now what the heeeeelllll does that mean?! Like a pre-fox 302? Or an older carbed fox 302?

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