Top Gear - Mustang

[AP1995V6]

There are elitest cars which do everything buy fly circles around the solar system in a nano-second.

Then there are the cars people can afford. I like underpowered stock cars. It gives me room to tinker with them. Buying them is like buying a box of legos.

 

[Engage47]

i cant find there view on the vette can someone poast up a link

 

[kbmwrs]

Most Europeans drive Euro-boxes because that's all that they can afford. Here the Mustang IS affordable.

 

[5-SpeedStallion]

Its true they don't like american cars. And the European cars that they like are well out of the mustang's price range. But they are better than the mustangs, I don't care what you guys say.
Don't get me wrong, I love mustangs, I love my car, and I'd like to own it forever, but you give me the choice between ANY kind of mustang, even a cobra, OR, ferraris/porsches/lambos and all the super cars they test, and I'll take those europeans cars ANY DAY.
Unlike Engage47, I'll take the scenic route. I drove my mustang all along the US1 highway from LA to SF, and there is nothing that you can say to me or give me that'll make me want to do it again with my car over my dad's (mercedes slk 350) As much as I like the sound of our cars and the engines and stuff, europeans WILL run circles around us.
Now...I am ignoring price AND i'm talking stock for stock.

Of course, when you compare a ~$50k 2 seater sports car with a ~$15k V6 Mustang, the Euro-car is going to be better, but I'll take my $50,000 C6 Corvette Convertible down the same road and mop the floor with the little SLK. I'll take the American icon w/ the 6.0L LS2 over a law-firm-secretary-who-knows-nothing-about-cars-and-just-wants-to-drive-a-Mercedes SLK any day of the week even if it has a "nicer" interior according to a couple biased British guys.

 

[DcDisturbed947]

Actually it has a nicer interior. I'll take the slk ANY DAY over any corvette, I don't care how much faster the corvette, I like mercedes better, what can I say. Its all personal preference, I'm not going to make fun of you cause you like the corvette better.
And I do hope the whole "law firm secretary" thing you were't refering to my dad... Plus you can't beat a convertible hard top, those things are the best. And I don't know if you ever drove the SLK 350 but I coudln't ask for a quicker car for any use that I might give it. Of course I"m going to start racing then I can find something faster, but 0-60 in 5.7 seconds is good enough for me.


Hey Engage, here's the Corvette video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1218157444012227484&q=top+gear+corvette

Just go to google videos and type "top gear" and you'll get SOOO many videos its really cool.

Of course, when you compare a ~$50k 2 seater sports car with a ~$15k V6 Mustang, the Euro-car is going to be better, but I'll take my $50,000 C6 Corvette Convertible down the same road and mop the floor with the little SLK. I'll take the American icon w/ the 6.0L LS2 over a law-firm-secretary-who-knows-nothing-about-cars-and-just-wants-to-drive-a-Mercedes SLK any day of the week even if it has a "nicer" interior according to a couple biased British guys.

 

[TMX]

If I'm gonna spend a ton of money and want nice performance with a good design and interior, I'll take the $550,000 Saleen S7 packing 750hp in a twin turbo'd V8. It's cheaper than some, still expensive as hell, but freaking fast. 2.8s 0-60.

 

[Engage47]

thanks disturbed damn they hated that car < vette) yet get this that fat one loved the ford GT and even bought one of only 20 something in the UK personally id just take the cheeper car and the extra money because i want something no one else has infact with the wife the way she is i want 2 hehehe

 

[5-SpeedStallion]

Actually it has a nicer interior. I'll take the slk ANY DAY over any corvette, I don't care how much faster the corvette, I like mercedes better, what can I say. Its all personal preference, I'm not going to make fun of you cause you like the corvette better.
And I do hope the whole "law firm secretary" thing you were't refering to my dad... Plus you can't beat a convertible hard top, those things are the best. And I don't know if you ever drove the SLK 350 but I coudln't ask for a quicker car for any use that I might give it. Of course I"m going to start racing then I can find something faster, but 0-60 in 5.7 seconds is good enough for me.

Yeah, of course it is personal preference, and that's fine... we all have different preferences. My main point was that you can't compare USA vs. Europe by comparing a V6 Mustang to a SLK that's over 3 times more expensive and 5 years newer. That's like deciding that American cars MUST be better because a Ford GT is better in every way than a '65 VW Van.

You have to compare apples to apples, and in that case you compare the SLK to the Vette. Both are 2 seater convertibles that cost $50k. Sure, the Mercedes has a better interior, but other than that subjective category, it loses at pretty much everything else. Performance wise, the Corvette owns. The vette has character and heritage, the SLK does not. It's just a car that you buy and drive for a few years until you feel like getting some other car. A corvette is a totally different beast. If you ever do end up selling the Corvette, or a Mustang for instance, you're still a part of a "family" of people who have owned and generally loved an American Icon. With the SLK, you trade it in, and the next person that buys it, generally buys it because it's a "Benz" convertible they think they'll look cool/cute in. Generally, someone who buys a car like a Mercedes, even an E55, is just someone who thinks they'll be cool by having the most expensive Benz no matter whether it's good at anything compared to the other cars. It is an IMAGE car first, and a quality car SECOND. Is it a good car? Yeah, probably, but it's not a Corvette, it's not a legend, and, most importantly, it has no charactecter.

It's all a matter of prorities. If you want Performance and character/heritage, and you like supporting the country you live in, then you buy a Corvette. If you want an Image car that has limited character and performance and a "nice" interior, then you buy an SLK.

The truth is, anything europe can do, American cars can do, and for less money, and with more character. The only thing Euro cars have that American cars often don't is Image.

___________


Now, I have nothing against your opinion or you dad's choice of car. The SLK is a great car. It's fairly fast, it has a nice interior, it's decent looking (opinion, but I'm not a fan of the "nose), etc. It does everything well, but it lacks in 2 of the most important categories... performance and character.

Of course, this is all just my opinion, and everyone is welcome to their own and I don't mean any offense by any of this. I just feel like the superiority that people see of Euro and Asian cars over American cars is GREATLY perceived and not grounded in fact.

 

[Engage47]

troof/\

 

[DcDisturbed947]

Now first I want to make sure that you now that everything I say from this moment on is with total respect, I do not mean to insult you even if it seems that way, and I value your opinion and will never judge for giving it.

The truth is, some of the things that you said are fairly naive.
You are describing who the mercedes buyer is, and its not accurate. I know more people than you can count with both of your hands that own mercedes, and not one of them fits your description. Heck...I wouldn't fit your description and I'd get the SLK over the Corvette.
And where do you get that the SLK lacks performace? If you really want to bring that up then I'll have to start talking about the Mustang again.
The Corvette and maybe 1 other car are the only 2 cars I've ever driven that are quicker than the SLK 350. By all means its not the fastest car out there, but holy crap it moves. And I have NEVER driven a car that handles better. Bear in mind it has the AMG suspension, even so, its unbelievable. People will go their entire lifetimes fixing the handling of their mustangs, and it will never compare. The ride is just incrdible. The feeling that you get when you are driving the car you don't get from just any car. You don't want to stop. The way it pushes you against the seat when you press the gas. I only wish the mustang would give me that feeling. I get a feeling driving the SLK that I never got driving the Corvette.
Now by all means I'm not putting the Corvette down, I've always like the car, but I'd take the SLK over the Corvette. And like I said before, unfortunately you do have a bit of a naive view in this situation.
Here's another unfortunate truth: At the moment, European cars are better than American cars. Maybe America has the technology, maybe the cars are cheaper, I don't care what the reason is, I don't care who the cars are aimed for, the bottom line is that even high class american cars are hard to compare with mercedes, bmw etc...
The problem with speaking about this here, is that you and most people here will defend the mustang and the american car to death, and so will I. Specially if I'm speaking with someone doesn't own an american car. But I also know what really is out there. I've owned my car for a long time, and I've driven many MANY european cars. American cars lack many things.
And you can't start talking to me about engines and how american cars have bigger and better engines and crap, cause how are they making 200 horspower out of my 3.8 litter engine and the europeans crank 400 horsepower out of a 2.0 litter engine? It just doesn't make sense.
Actually it does make sense, the 3.8 litter is cheaper, aimed for different people, AND THATS FINE. But you can't tell me that it is a better car.

Now back to the whole SLK/Corvette thing again, I'll say it again, ALL it is, is preference. Heck the prices of the cars are the same, but again, I'll take the SLK. Do you really think I'm doing it because I think it'll make me look cool?
Or maybe I tried both cars and ultimately prefer the Mercedes?
I think you can answer that question, cmon.

Hey before I end this I want to make it clear again real quick so that you know that I really don't mean to offend you or anyone in any way, specially with the whole "naive" comment. Cool? I'm just trying to get my point across the best way that I can, and do you understand what I'm saying?
Have a good one!

Yeah, of course it is personal preference, and that's fine... we all have different preferences. My main point was that you can't compare USA vs. Europe by comparing a V6 Mustang to a SLK that's over 3 times more expensive and 5 years newer. That's like deciding that American cars MUST be better because a Ford GT is better in every way than a '65 VW Van.

You have to compare apples to apples, and in that case you compare the SLK to the Vette. Both are 2 seater convertibles that cost $50k. Sure, the Mercedes has a better interior, but other than that subjective category, it loses at pretty much everything else. Performance wise, the Corvette owns. The vette has character and heritage, the SLK does not. It's just a car that you buy and drive for a few years until you feel like getting some other car. A corvette is a totally different beast. If you ever do end up selling the Corvette, or a Mustang for instance, you're still a part of a "family" of people who have owned and generally loved an American Icon. With the SLK, you trade it in, and the next person that buys it, generally buys it because it's a "Benz" convertible they think they'll look cool/cute in. Generally, someone who buys a car like a Mercedes, even an E55, is just someone who thinks they'll be cool by having the most expensive Benz no matter whether it's good at anything compared to the other cars. It is an IMAGE car first, and a quality car SECOND. Is it a good car? Yeah, probably, but it's not a Corvette, it's not a legend, and, most importantly, it has no charactecter.

It's all a matter of prorities. If you want Performance and character/heritage, and you like supporting the country you live in, then you buy a Corvette. If you want an Image car that has limited character and performance and a "nice" interior, then you buy an SLK.

The truth is, anything europe can do, American cars can do, and for less money, and with more character. The only thing Euro cars have that American cars often don't is Image.

___________


Now, I have nothing against your opinion or you dad's choice of car. The SLK is a great car. It's fairly fast, it has a nice interior, it's decent looking (opinion, but I'm not a fan of the "nose), etc. It does everything well, but it lacks in 2 of the most important categories... performance and character.

Of course, this is all just my opinion, and everyone is welcome to their own and I don't mean any offense by any of this. I just feel like the superiority that people see of Euro and Asian cars over American cars is GREATLY perceived and not grounded in fact.

 

[5-SpeedStallion]

Now first I want to make sure that you now that everything I say from this moment on is with total respect, I do not mean to insult you even if it seems that way, and I value your opinion and will never judge for giving it.

The truth is, some of the things that you said are fairly naive.
You are describing who the mercedes buyer is, and its not accurate. I know more people than you can count with both of your hands that own mercedes, and not one of them fits your description. Heck...I wouldn't fit your description and I'd get the SLK over the Corvette.
And where do you get that the SLK lacks performace? If you really want to bring that up then I'll have to start talking about the Mustang again.
The Corvette and maybe 1 other car are the only 2 cars I've ever driven that are quicker than the SLK 350. By all means its not the fastest car out there, but holy crap it moves. And I have NEVER driven a car that handles better. Bear in mind it has the AMG suspension, even so, its unbelievable. People will go their entire lifetimes fixing the handling of their mustangs, and it will never compare. The ride is just incrdible. The feeling that you get when you are driving the car you don't get from just any car. You don't want to stop. The way it pushes you against the seat when you press the gas. I only wish the mustang would give me that feeling. I get a feeling driving the SLK that I never got driving the Corvette.
Now by all means I'm not putting the Corvette down, I've always like the car, but I'd take the SLK over the Corvette. And like I said before, unfortunately you do have a bit of a naive view in this situation.
Here's another unfortunate truth: At the moment, European cars are better than American cars. Maybe America has the technology, maybe the cars are cheaper, I don't care what the reason is, I don't care who the cars are aimed for, the bottom line is that even high class american cars are hard to compare with mercedes, bmw etc...
The problem with speaking about this here, is that you and most people here will defend the mustang and the american car to death, and so will I. Specially if I'm speaking with someone doesn't own an american car. But I also know what really is out there. I've owned my car for a long time, and I've driven many MANY european cars. American cars lack many things.
And you can't start talking to me about engines and how american cars have bigger and better engines and crap, cause how are they making 200 horspower out of my 3.8 litter engine and the europeans crank 400 horsepower out of a 2.0 litter engine? It just doesn't make sense.
Actually it does make sense, the 3.8 litter is cheaper, aimed for different people, AND THATS FINE. But you can't tell me that it is a better car.

Now back to the whole SLK/Corvette thing again, I'll say it again, ALL it is, is preference. Heck the prices of the cars are the same, but again, I'll take the SLK. Do you really think I'm doing it because I think it'll make me look cool?
Or maybe I tried both cars and ultimately prefer the Mercedes?
I think you can answer that question, cmon.

Hey before I end this I want to make it clear again real quick so that you know that I really don't mean to offend you or anyone in any way, specially with the whole "naive" comment. Cool? I'm just trying to get my point across the best way that I can, and do you understand what I'm saying?
Have a good one!

Yeah, I understand that people have their own preferences and that some people may actually prefer the SLK to the Corvette because they just like it and aren't buying it as an Image car. That is why I said "generally" on multiple occasions.

I understand your preference, and don't fault you for it. My main point again is to refute the suggestion that Euro cars are inherently better than American cars.

1. According to Consumer reports, Euro cars are LESS RELIABLE than American Cars for 2004. 21 problems per 100 cars for Euro cars, and 17 for US. The 2004 Mustang came out as one the the most reliable cars sold in the US (including Euro, US, and Asian offerings) with just 5 problems per 100 cars.

2. You get what you pay for. Sure, most Euro's in the same size class as American cars have better interiors and fit and finish, but you pay out the butt for it. Take for example the Ford Fusion SEL 3.0 V6 and the Mercedes C-class Sedan 2.5L V6. The Ford has nearly everything the Mercedes has, it has more power, just as good gas mileage, it is larger in virtually every dimension yet weighs less, a suspension from the Mazda 6 that is very highly regarded.... basically, the only advantage of the C-class is the Emblem on the hood... all for only $8,000. You had better get a slightly better car for $8k, but in this case, you aren't.

Again, I see how you could like the SLK. It is arguably one of the best Euro cars available, and at $50k, it is not priced way out of competition with the cars it is comparable to, but many Euro cars are. You pay a crapload of extra money to get a car that is often merely an appliance of image, not a car with the character and value of car like the Mustang and Corvette.

 

[DcDisturbed947]

Hey buddy...don't worry I agree with you 100%. Like we both said, in the end, it all comes down to personal preference.
I saw an article once about how euro cars aren't very reliable. Like, BMW and Mercedes actually had a much higher percentage of problems with new cars than american cars. I think the best one was toyota, with the smallest percentage of problems with new cars. I don't remember the precentages, but I was left speechless, bmw and mercedes were at the very bottom.
Speaking of Beamers, I don't know if you are a fan. I am, I really want an M3, I'd take it over the SLK. But what do you think of the new BMWs? Do you like them? I don't like them at all.
People will say "you just have to get used to it, like the mustang"
Maybe I will eventually, but right now, I don't think they made them ANY BETTER.
With the SLKs, when I say I like them so much, I am talking about the new models, 2005 and up, with the new front. I don't like the older ones, they are much tinier and not so bas ass looking from the front.
I read someone say here that they don't like the new front, there we go again personal preference lol.
Anyways, I'm out, have a good one

Yeah, I understand that people have their own preferences and that some people may actually prefer the SLK to the
Corvette because they just like it and aren't buying it as an Image car. That is why I said "generally" on multiple occasions.

I understand your preference, and don't fault you for it. My main point again is to refute the suggestion that Euro cars are inherently better than American cars.

1. According to Consumer reports, Euro cars are LESS RELIABLE than American Cars for 2004. 21 problems per 100 cars for Euro cars, and 17 for US. The 2004 Mustang came out as one the the most reliable cars sold in the US (including Euro, US, and Asian offerings) with just 5 problems per 100 cars.

2. You get what you pay for. Sure, most Euro's in the same size class as American cars have better interiors and fit and finish, but you pay out the butt for it. Take for example the Ford Fusion SEL 3.0 V6 and the Mercedes C-class Sedan 2.5L V6. The Ford has nearly everything the Mercedes has, it has more power, just as good gas mileage, it is larger in virtually every dimension yet weighs less, a suspension from the Mazda 6 that is very highly regarded.... basically, the only advantage of the C-class is the Emblem on the hood... all for only $8,000. You had better get a slightly better car for $8k, but in this case, you aren't.

Again, I see how you could like the SLK. It is arguably one of the best Euro cars available, and at $50k, it is not priced way out of competition with the cars it is comparable to, but many Euro cars are. You pay a crapload of extra money to get a car that is often merely an appliance of image, not a car with the character and value of car like the Mustang and Corvette.

 

[5-SpeedStallion]

Hey buddy...don't worry I agree with you 100%. Like we both said, in the end, it all comes down to personal preference.
I saw an article once about how euro cars aren't very reliable. Like, BMW and Mercedes actually had a much higher percentage of problems with new cars than american cars. I think the best one was toyota, with the smallest percentage of problems with new cars. I don't remember the precentages, but I was left speechless, bmw and mercedes were at the very bottom.
Speaking of Beamers, I don't know if you are a fan. I am, I really want an M3, I'd take it over the SLK. But what do you think of the new BMWs? Do you like them? I don't like them at all.
People will say "you just have to get used to it, like the mustang"
Maybe I will eventually, but right now, I don't think they made them ANY BETTER.
With the SLKs, when I say I like them so much, I am talking about the new models, 2005 and up, with the new front. I don't like the older ones, they are much tinier and not so bas ass looking from the front.
I read someone say here that they don't like the new front, there we go again personal preference lol.
Anyways, I'm out, have a good one

Yeah, we're on the same page here. Personal preference is everything. There are a lot of technically/mechanically great cars built by European companies, but they just don't do anything for me. Honestly, if someone offered me the Fox-body 4-cylinder Notchback that I just bought for $500 or a new Mercedes (other than maybe an E55 or an SL65 or something) under the stipulation that I had to keep either car for 10 years as my only car. I would honestly take the beater Mustang. Why? Because in 10 years (hopefully less), I will have my dream car. A clean, 347 stroker powered, Notchback Fox that will go deep 11's N/A or less if I go F/I while still being an easily streetable car. On the other hand, if I took the Mercedes, I'd have a nice, quick car for a few years, but after 10 years, what would I have? A ten year old Mercedes. I wouldn't even walk across the street for a free 10 year old Mercedes. They just don't do anything for me.

Anyway, yeah, I like BMW's to some extent. Again, they are nice cars, but very few would I even THINK about buying. Probably the only recebt ones I'd be interested in would be an E36 M3 or the last M5. The E46 M3 is a great car, but I can't stand the people who drive them, and the new stuff doesn't ultimately do much for me in the long run.

 

[TMX]

I knew a kid at school who worked hard to get an old M3. I'll give him credit, he really worked at getting that car, but after he got it...he was just another arrogant beamer owner. "My M3 is the fastest car here, nothin can beat it!" Don't get me wrong, the 333hp M3 is fast and could beat me, but I think the kid with a supercharged 351w in a fox that he built up beats it. Hopefully a more mature person wouldn't go around claiming he has the fastest car in the world cause it's an M3, but 17 year old kids get damn annoying real quick.

 

['66 coupe]

This thread sucks. I can't read all of this!!!

So basically I think the guy on TopGear is an ignorant Eurpean prick. He's comparing the Mustang to exotic European cars. But over here, the Mustang is a car normal people drive, and it's not unusual to see 10 in a 20 minute car ride.
So let's do what he was afraid to do, and compare the Mustang to cars that are MORE COMMON in Europe. O wait, their most common cars are crappy 4-bangers cause their "petrol" prices are too high.

I also disagree with him bashing the "live rear axel." Every Automotive Magazine I've read praised the fact that the Solid Rear Axel is practically unnoticeable. One magazine even said they had to make sure their press car wasn't fitted with IRS to get an unfair review.
Should the Mustang have been given an IRS? Depends on how much you think customers are willing to pay for it.

No the new Mustang may not handle as well as some European cars. But like 5-SpeedStallion said, you have to compare Apples to Apples. The '05+ is worlds better than any other Mustang that preceded it(not including limited production runs). Hell, the convertibles are putting down the same numbers as hardtops(in Car and Driver's case better). The bottom line is, you get one hell of a car for $25-30k. If YOU don't think it's good enough, go spend the money for a Porsche or something.

Oh, and I can say my '01 Mustang is WAY nicer than an '88 Civic. But doesn't stating obvious facts like that just make me look like an arrogant prick?!! Some things just don't need to be said, proving that that guy was definately just trying to talk crap about American cars.

 

['66 coupe]

I knew a kid at school who worked hard to get an old M3....but 17 year old kids get damn annoying real quick.

You ever ask him how he made his money? There's gotta only be a couple things a 17 yr-old could do to afford an M3. And none of them are legal.

 

[TMX]

He drove some crappy car his parents gave him, and saved all the money he got for a year and a half, then sold his old car and got alot of money for graduation and got an older M3 before graduation for $9000 I think it was. His whole goal through high school was to get an M3, mine was to get a faster mustang lol.