top loader question

[thedeuce]

I have a top loader with the tag id of rug J2 ( 1967 1969 fairlane) does any one know if this will fit in a 65 mustang and the shifter be in the right location? and if not can it be modified to fit?

 

[gtss]

I think it should fit with no problem, but I am not an expert,
check out this website, there is a ton of info
David Kee Toploader Transmissions, Inc.

hope it helps
gtss

 

[thedeuce]

Thanks gtss
according to that site the case is the same length but the tail shaft does not have the mounting holes that the mustang shaft has.
Hopefully someone will respond that knows for sure or not

 

[D.Hearne]

David Kee sells new tailhousings that have both mounting point holes drilled. All you have to do is swap the housings. The Mustang shifter mounted all the way to the rear of the tailhousing, the Fairlane shifter was the set of holes forward of that.

 

[dennis112]

David Kee sells new tailhousings that have both mounting point holes drilled. All you have to do is swap the housings. The Mustang shifter mounted all the way to the rear of the tailhousing, the Fairlane shifter was the set of holes forward of that.

Correct info on the tailhousing. Just needs a simple swap to get the shifter mounting in the right location.

There is an additional problem with the RUG J2 that hasn't been mentioned. That is a tranny built for a 390 BBF. From the factory it will have a short input shaft--not what is needed for a small block. Here is what I am talking about:

Best to change out the input shaft for a small block one (especially for performance use), although there was a truck pilot bushing that would make up the difference. If the input shaft was changed, it needs one for a 2.78 wide ratio gearset. One for a 2.32 close ratio will not work.

Other than those 2 items, the tranny will work just fine in your 65'.

 

[D.Hearne]

Ditto on what Dennis posted about the input shaft. It was late wne I read the first post and never looked up the numbers. You do not want to try using this transmission in a small block bell without first swapping the input shaft or using the extended pilot bushing. Been there-done that. At the very least it'll end up breaking the input bearing, at worst it'll bust the 4th gear set.

 

[thedeuce]

Thanks guys you have all been a big help.. Will it be cheeper to find the correct tranny or is the tail swap and input shaft swap the lesser of the two evils?

 

[dennis112]

Thanks guys you have all been a big help.. Will it be cheeper to find the correct tranny or is the tail swap and input shaft swap the lesser of the two evils?

It is probably a wash. The tailhousing can be found on ebay for around $150.00 or so. You will want one for a 28 spline tailshaft, not the big 31 spline one. The new replacement is around $300. It is very easy to replace this housing, although you may need to replace the yoke support bushing, the rear seal and the tailhousing gasket.

New input shafts are around $150. I am unsure about used ones. Since you have a wide ratio tranny, it can be installed without totally disassembly, but you will need the proper length dummy shaft because the cluster gear will need to be temporarily dropped in the case. I can do both the input shaft and the tailshaft swap in about an hour if all goes well. Otherwise, it is a more major job as most of the guts will need removed.

One other thing to consider is the condition of the tranny that you have. How are the sycro's and the gear sets? Bearings can be bad as well as other parts may be worn. Thanks to the popularity of these trannies, every single part is available new so yours can be totally rebuilt no matter what might be wrong with it.

I get most of my parts from Mark at www.toploaderheaven.com . Sometimes he has good used stuff too.

As I said earlier, it is probably a wash.

 

[D.Hearne]

Thanks guys you have all been a big help.. Will it be cheeper to find the correct tranny or is the tail swap and input shaft swap the lesser of the two evils?

If you can get that Toploader at a decent price, it's well worth the effort to swap the tailshaft housing (this is an easy operation, just 5 bolts) and input (this is a bit more involved, but not hard to do yourself, David Kee will supply you with instructions to do it). Might also be a good time to replace the blocker rings, seals and gaskets anyway. I was always leary of tearing down and putting a transmission together till I did a Toploader. I used the step by step instructions from the old Motor Repair Manual (David Kee includes these with his kits) and it was a piece of cake. The extended pilot bushing is an easier fix for this, if you can locate one. They were used in some early Bronco's and the 69-70 Boss 302 Mustangs (Ford apparently used the big block Toploaders in these cars). Any Toploader you can get for under $400 is well worth the price, even if it needs repairs. These things are damn near bullet proof. I've got a 40 year old one in my V8 Ranger that's still going strong

 

[dennis112]

At the very least it'll end up breaking the input bearing, at worst it'll bust the 4th gear set.

I went down this road before. Unknowingly installed a 390 tranny behind a 200 6 banger, it up shifted great, but would not downshift from 3rd to 4th whatsoever. After running it that way for about a year I tore it down to discover that I ruined both the main case (from bearing wobble) and the front of the output shaft. I lost several of those little nubs that the front C-clip needs to help hold the gear set on the main shaft.

Now when I break a toploader, it is from applying a little too much stress. Here is what I tore up last Friday at the track :

Time for a bigblock input shaft.

 

[thedeuce]

Dennis 112 and D. Hearne
I appreciate the reply.
You guy's explained this perfectly, an easy fix and reasonable. I can grab this from a friend for around 300 w/ smalblock bell attached, and shifter, so definitely worth the small hassle.
Being new here I must say... Damn glad to meet you! and THANKS GUY"S!!!

 

[D.Hearne]

$300 for all that is a steal. Especially if it's a Hurst shifter.

 

[thedeuce]

yes its a steal, aluminum bell housing original mustang Hurst shifter and linkages
He has had over 150 mustangs, many fastbacks and he still has a 65 gt-350 with dual quads he bought it back in the late 70's for 2000.00 bucks and passed on a hertz 350 down the street for 800.00 of course that was in 1978, he is tied in with the guy who owns mid America mustang here in Missouri and my buddy has a ton of mustang parts and old ford coups everywhere!